Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

Akin matched cravath

[Anonymous User]

Akin matched cravath

I know this was already obvious, but DC is cooked, so time for a compulsory dig at Arnold & PoorTTTer.

Also where Hogan Lovells at? Doubt they're stupid enough to go the AP route but who knows.

[Anonymous User]

Crickets at Greenberg Traurig (non-East Coast office, anyways). Curious if the NY folks heard anything, at least.

[sener212]

Serious question: how does Milbank - now a legit comp leader - take this long to match (Cravath announced on Feb 28) if they are not thinking of/going to go over the top.

[Anonymous User]

Serious question: how does Milbank - now a legit comp leader - take this long to match (Cravath announced on Feb 28) if they are not thinking of/going to go over the top.

So they can mess with you mentally and keep you thinking about them, like now.

[Anonymous User]

Any news on Greenberg Traurig? A bunch of associate dinners by comp year were scheduled with managing shareholders in at least two offices that I know of, but only juniors have had that so far I think. Don't have high hopes given it's GT and all, but they did come out last year and make a big deal about matching the market scale in those offices where they weren't already...so would be hypocritical to now dodge market raises. But, that's Greenberg Traurig's thing (along with being cheap), really.

Greenberg Traurig stealthed numerous associates during the height of the pandemic, so I wouldn't be surprised if they cheap out and don't match.

[Anonymous User]

Akin matched cravath

I know this was already obvious, but DC is cooked, so time for a compulsory dig at Arnold & PoorTTTer.

Also where Hogan Lovells at? Doubt they're stupid enough to go the AP route but who knows.

And Wilmer with the re-raise. They're paying even less than Arnold & Poorhouse right now

[Anonymous User]

I know this was already obvious, but DC is cooked, so time for a compulsory dig at Arnold & PoorTTTer.

Also where Hogan Lovells at? Doubt they're stupid enough to go the AP route but who knows.

And Wilmer with the re-raise. They're paying even less than Arnold & Poorhouse right now

Shocking that CovingTTTon is the vanguard of DC right now. (Signed, proud CovingTTTon person.)

[Anonymous User]

It’s wild to me that not a single article about “jaw dropping” associate raises and “salary wars” ever bothers to (a) do the inflation math, or even mention it, or (b) properly contextualize associate salaries in the broader environment of firm profitability.

There’s no doubt that associates in 2022 are doing pretty well, but inflation makes the current numbers look much less eye popping (first years in 2008 were better off, midlevels now are ahead) and is going to continue to quickly erode those momentary gains unless salary increases continue like this (which is never guaranteed).

Also, law firms generally are doing extremely well - when every new day brings another article with an AmLaw firm showing PEP up 10 to 50%, it should be expected that the worker bees see some benefit - isn’t that their Reaganomics in action?

I just can’t stand the tone of these articles.

bumping this as the only sensible post in this entire godforsaken thread

[Anonymous User]

Any news on Greenberg Traurig? A bunch of associate dinners by comp year were scheduled with managing shareholders in at least two offices that I know of, but only juniors have had that so far I think. Don't have high hopes given it's GT and all, but they did come out last year and make a big deal about matching the market scale in those offices where they weren't already...so would be hypocritical to now dodge market raises. But, that's Greenberg Traurig's thing (along with being cheap), really.

Greenberg Traurig stealthed numerous associates during the height of the pandemic, so I wouldn't be surprised if they cheap out and don't match.

As a former GT senior associate in NY during the pandemic, not sure where you’re getting this from, certainly never heard it myself (and I have no reason to protect the firm). Firms that stealthed during the pandemic got outted here, ATL, wherever…nothing about GT doing it. They didn’t even cut salaries, no austerity measures. You seem like someone who just has a grudge unless you care to actually provide any evidence to back this up.

[Anonymous User]

Partner made a comment he thought it was ridiculous 8th years are making more money than he did as a junior partner 15 years ago.

Does he even know what the firms bills an 8th year out in 2022 vs 2007?

[Anonymous User]

It's pretty funny that biglaw associates are the only professional class that don't see a recession coming very soon.

A possible recession is precisely why it's important to lock in base raises.

[Anonymous User]

Partner made a comment he thought it was ridiculous 8th years are making more money than he did as a junior partner 15 years ago.

Does he even know what the firms bills an 8th year out in 2022 vs 2007?

A dollar in 2007 = 1.3 in 2021, and by the time we're done this year likely 1.4-1.5. If he was making 350 as a junior partner that's about 500k today.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan just matched Cravath retro to Jan. 1 and paid in March.

Notably, Hogan explicitly exempted Miami from the new scale, so not great news for GT associates in the Sunshine State. The extraordinary cheapness of firms in that market never ceases to amaze.

[Anonymous User]

Greenberg Traurig matched market finally in Miami last year...now it seems doubtful they'll match market again (and even if they did, they would never do a true true-up retro to January 1st, it's not their style of being incredibly cheap). So who will actually pay true market in Miami this year? White & Case, and....McDermott (do they pay market in every US office)? Sucks - aside from taxes it is not a cheap place to live compared to NYC unless you want to live in the Everglades and commute 2 hours to work.

[2013]

Greenberg Traurig matched market finally in Miami last year...now it seems doubtful they'll match market again (and even if they did, they would never do a true true-up retro to January 1st, it's not their style of being incredibly cheap). So who will actually pay true market in Miami this year? White & Case, and....McDermott (do they pay market in every US office)? Sucks - aside from taxes it is not a cheap place to live compared to NYC unless you want to live in the Everglades and commute 2 hours to work.

Lol at someone in Miami trying to say that it’s not that much cheaper to live in Miami than NY. Brickell is cheaper than many parts of Queens.

[Anonymous User]

Any news on Greenberg Traurig? A bunch of associate dinners by comp year were scheduled with managing shareholders in at least two offices that I know of, but only juniors have had that so far I think. Don't have high hopes given it's GT and all, but they did come out last year and make a big deal about matching the market scale in those offices where they weren't already...so would be hypocritical to now dodge market raises. But, that's Greenberg Traurig's thing (along with being cheap), really.

Greenberg Traurig stealthed numerous associates during the height of the pandemic, so I wouldn't be surprised if they cheap out and don't match.

As a former GT senior associate in NY during the pandemic, not sure where you’re getting this from, certainly never heard it myself (and I have no reason to protect the firm). Firms that stealthed during the pandemic got outted here, ATL, wherever…nothing about GT doing it. They didn’t even cut salaries, no austerity measures. You seem like someone who just has a grudge unless you care to actually provide any evidence to back this up.

I heard it firsthand from someone it happened to so I believe it. I don't have a grudge. I've never worked there and I have no stake in whether they match. They just have a TTT reputation for how they treat associates.

[Anonymous User]

Hogan just matched Cravath retro to Jan. 1 and paid in March.

Notably, Hogan explicitly exempted Miami from the new scale, so not great news for GT associates in the Sunshine State. The extraordinary cheapness of firms in that market never ceases to amaze.

And Arnold & Poorhouse takes another L

[VentureMBA]

Greenberg Traurig matched market finally in Miami last year...now it seems doubtful they'll match market again (and even if they did, they would never do a true true-up retro to January 1st, it's not their style of being incredibly cheap). So who will actually pay true market in Miami this year? White & Case, and....McDermott (do they pay market in every US office)? Sucks - aside from taxes it is not a cheap place to live compared to NYC unless you want to live in the Everglades and commute 2 hours to work.

Lol at someone in Miami trying to say that it’s not that much cheaper to live in Miami than NY. Brickell is cheaper than many parts of Queens.

+ "aside from taxes" is like a 10-15% difference. That's more than someone pays in rent for the year.

[Anonymous User]

Will the Desmarais spring bonuses mean anything for biglaw or are they kind of unique?

[Anonymous User]

Will the Desmarais spring bonuses mean anything for biglaw or are they kind of unique?

I doubt it. They're a unique case. They used to pay 20k above NY market for base, and now pay market(?) They're a lit boutique and won't affect what the NY corporate market does.

[Anonymous User]

Will the Desmarais spring bonuses mean anything for biglaw or are they kind of unique?

No. Desmarais is routinely over market for bonuses and comp. I don't think biglaw firms see them as a peer for compensation.

[Anonymous User]

To the Brickell vs. Queens people in this NYC vs. Miami CoL "debate" -

Correct on the taxes (and I include RE taxes in this if you're a homeowner), but LOL at some fool making a statement that Brickell is cheaper than "many parts of Queens" as if that proves anything - most of Queens is a shit hole outside of a few nice areas, and so is Brickell so your comparison is moronic or ignorant unless you're comparing the best of one to the worst of the other. As a Brooklyn native who's spent approximately half their adult lives living in Miami vs. NYC, is over 40, and owns properties in both NYC and Miami, I speak from a lot of experience. Non-rent/home-ownership costs (groceries, eating out, entertainment, etc.) of someone living a typical upper-middle or upper class lifestyle (all of this should be in the context of the average privileged biglaw associate) have now risen to NYC prices, and both rent and home ownership costs are catching up. If you're relying on some calculator like on CNN Money to compute the CoL difference you clearly have little grasp of economic and finance as well, since those generalized CoL comparisons are based on a number of erroneous underlying assumptions and there's a lot of variables involved here, obviously. Again, I'm talking about someone living the same quality of life in each location with similar expenditures. Sure, you could move out to the outskirts of Brickell on the southern side and (incorrectly) compare that to Astoria/Ridewood/etc....again that's only rent/owning a home which is one piece of the puzzle...but that's a flawed analysis obviously, and I could do it in reverse for a better area of Brickell (or Miami, if you think Brickell is the nicest and most expensive area of Miami you know less than I thought). So going back to your original comparison of Brickell vs. "many parts of Queens" being cheaper is absurd unless you are comparing the absolute shit holes of Brickell to the nicest part of Queens. Again, any decent CoL comparison needs to keep the underlying QoL variables consistent.

[Anonymous User]

To the Brickell vs. Queens people in this NYC vs. Miami CoL "debate" -

Correct on the taxes (and I include RE taxes in this if you're a homeowner), but LOL at some fool making a statement that Brickell is cheaper than "many parts of Queens" as if that proves anything - most of Queens is a shit hole outside of a few nice areas, and so is Brickell so your comparison is moronic or ignorant unless you're comparing the best of one to the worst of the other. As a Brooklyn native who's spent approximately half their adult lives living in Miami vs. NYC, is over 40, and owns properties in both NYC and Miami, I speak from a lot of experience. Non-rent/home-ownership costs (groceries, eating out, entertainment, etc.) of someone living a typical upper-middle or upper class lifestyle (all of this should be in the context of the average privileged biglaw associate) have now risen to NYC prices, and both rent and home ownership costs are catching up. If you're relying on some calculator like on CNN Money to compute the CoL difference you clearly have little grasp of economic and finance as well, since those generalized CoL comparisons are based on a number of erroneous underlying assumptions and there's a lot of variables involved here, obviously. Again, I'm talking about someone living the same quality of life in each location with similar expenditures. Sure, you could move out to the outskirts of Brickell on the southern side and (incorrectly) compare that to Astoria/Ridewood/etc....again that's only rent/owning a home which is one piece of the puzzle...but that's a flawed analysis obviously, and I could do it in reverse for a better area of Brickell (or Miami, if you think Brickell is the nicest and most expensive area of Miami you know less than I thought). So going back to your original comparison of Brickell vs. "many parts of Queens" being cheaper is absurd unless you are comparing the absolute shit holes of Brickell to the nicest part of Queens. Again, any decent CoL comparison needs to keep the underlying QoL variables consistent.

This guy has been waiting forever for this moment

[Anonymous User]

To the Brickell vs. Queens people in this NYC vs. Miami CoL "debate" -
If you're relying on some calculator like on CNN Money to compute the CoL difference you clearly have little grasp of economic and finance as well, since those generalized CoL comparisons are based on a number of erroneous underlying assumptions and there's a lot of variables involved here, obviously.

Ditto for NYC versus Dallas/Austin COL comparisons from someone whose lived in each for 10+ years