Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

[Anonymous User]

A lot of references in here requesting DPW associates to "ask what is going on." Is this a serious request, or are people joking? I'm curious as to what type of relationship these posters have with the partners where they would feel it is appropriate to just willy-nilly discuss compensation with them (absent, perhaps in the context of an annual performance review)?

I'm a senior associate that has worked at a v5 and now at another v50 and have had good relationships with the partners that I worked with at both firms, but would never feel comfortable bringing this up in either context. Maybe this is firm-culture dependent?

The only scenario where I could see this where there is a junior partner who the associate worked with when now-partner was an associate. However, under these facts, I assume the junior partner is not even going to have the insight on firm comp decisions so why bother bringing it up.

It's not that deep bro.

[ExpOriental]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Also A&P associate, and mine is the prior salary too. WilmerHale and Baker McKenzie must feel really stupid right now for raising. I'm sure A&P will raise if others do, but why would they raise when firms with $3-4M PPP aren't moving?

...why?

[Anonymous User]

Cooley full match

Edit: wait they did this 4 days ago? How did I miss this.

[Anonymous User]

Cooley full match

Troll or are the matches really incoming now?

ATL already had an article on the Cooley stealth match. They normally don’t publish bonus amounts until they are paid mid February so they’ll probably announce the match to Milbank at that time. (i.e., Monday)

[Anonymous User]

The last three weeks have only cemented what a gigachad firm DPW is. I'm rating them a 10 in my Vault survey, get bent CSM.

How is it possible the other V10 firms are this whipped?

[Anonymous User]

Cooley full match

Troll or are the matches really incoming now?

ATL already had an article on the Cooley stealth match. They normally don’t publish bonus amounts until they are paid mid February so they’ll probably announce the match to Milbank at that time. (i.e., Monday)

Yeah I just noticed on pg 1 of this thread that the Cooley match is dated to 2/7. Had no idea.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

[MarcusH]

A lot of references in here requesting DPW associates to "ask what is going on." Is this a serious request, or are people joking? I'm curious as to what type of relationship these posters have with the partners where they would feel it is appropriate to just willy-nilly discuss compensation with them (absent, perhaps in the context of an annual performance review)?

I'm a senior associate that has worked at a v5 and now at another v50 and have had good relationships with the partners that I worked with at both firms, but would never feel comfortable bringing this up in either context. Maybe this is firm-culture dependent?

The only scenario where I could see this where there is a junior partner who the associate worked with when now-partner was an associate. However, under these facts, I assume the junior partner is not even going to have the insight on firm comp decisions so why bother bringing it up.

It's not that deep bro.

Are you from the South original anon? I have zero problem discussing comp with partners (ones I work with and group heads)... would not personally be the one to raise my hand on a firmwide conference call but will and do absolutely bring it up in casual conversation. Everyone in biglaw is in it for the money, no one does this purely for the love of the game (except maybe a handful of absolute psychos) and lack of transparency only benefits those at the top. Also recruiters are still throwing six figure sign-ons left and right - comp is absolutely not taboo these days and hasn't been for sometime at most major firms and outdated attitudes only hurt the masses.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

If we want to go back to dragging firms because there's no real news, A&P is a good target. At least in D.C., they're condescending pricks even though they don't command the preftige of a Williams & Connelly or Covington or the raw PPP power of the V10s. They're also cheap as hell.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

In years past, management would send an associate-wide email with the salary scale and stating that true ups would be paid to Jan 1. This is the first time they haven’t done it. Agreed on the rest.

[Anonymous User]

So does this mean AP is moving to black box?

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

In years past, management would send an associate-wide email with the salary scale and stating that true ups would be paid to Jan 1. This is the first time they haven’t done it. Agreed on the rest.

My guess is they just didn't want to announce anything formally. They announced salaries last year on 2/1. They were clearly stalling and felt obligated to send out the notices so they could issue paychecks on 2/15. I think this is consistent with a wait-and-see approach. Management said in that associate update thing a few weeks ago that certain expenses are "out of [their] control," like "market compensation changes." They'll ultimately do whatever the market does.

[VentureMBA]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

AmLaw PPP is based on equity partners. Firms with non-equity/income partners can limit the equity partnership to partners with certain books of business. Junior partners who are less profitable and would be nonequity at other firms will necessarily bring those numbers down.

[Anonymous User]

A lot of references in here requesting DPW associates to "ask what is going on." Is this a serious request, or are people joking? I'm curious as to what type of relationship these posters have with the partners where they would feel it is appropriate to just willy-nilly discuss compensation with them (absent, perhaps in the context of an annual performance review)?

I'm a senior associate that has worked at a v5 and now at another v50 and have had good relationships with the partners that I worked with at both firms, but would never feel comfortable bringing this up in either context. Maybe this is firm-culture dependent?

The only scenario where I could see this where there is a junior partner who the associate worked with when now-partner was an associate. However, under these facts, I assume the junior partner is not even going to have the insight on firm comp decisions so why bother bringing it up.

It's not that deep bro.

Are you from the South original anon? I have zero problem discussing comp with partners (ones I work with and group heads)... would not personally be the one to raise my hand on a firmwide conference call but will and do absolutely bring it up in casual conversation. Everyone in biglaw is in it for the money, no one does this purely for the love of the game (except maybe a handful of absolute psychos) and lack of transparency only benefits those at the top. Also recruiters are still throwing six figure sign-ons left and right - comp is absolutely not taboo these days and hasn't been for sometime at most major firms and outdated attitudes only hurt the masses.

Not, not from the south. Just apparently an associate that is behind the times.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

Instead of having 200 partners with equity shares and 200 "partners" who are salaried partners-in-name-only who make a hair more than senior associates, A&P has 300 equity partners.

Even so, their PPP of $1.3MM with 300-odd partners is abysmal. You could shave off 1/3 of their partnership and they'd still be lagging the likes of DLA Piper and Winston & Strawn in terms of PPP.

[Anonymous User]

Arnold & Porter is, at least for now and at least for me, not matching. The firm just sent individualized links for 2022 compensation. Mine is the prior salary.

I don’t think this precludes the firm from matching in the future, but once again, the complete lack of transparency is beyond frustrating.

Heard that A&P is very cheap (e.g., a pro-rated hours requirement for stub year bonuses) and that, at least for transactional, there has been a lot of attrition. They are on the lower end of PPP for market firms, what are the chances they end up not matching at all?

A&P associate.I think there’s a real chance they don’t match this time.They didn’t pay the 2020 special bonus and were not at all transparent about it. Management said they’d be more transparent moving forward, but they’ve since switched to sending salary info by individualized links.

They did individualized links last year too (and the year before that and the year before that and the year before that). It's to comply with the DC wage notice statute. They'll always match whatever salary Covington, Hogan, etc. pay. Those firms aren't raising right now either. PPP is lower at A&P than others, but we also have only equity partners. That will obv keep PPP lower. What's stupid is they're paying us less total comp than last year. It's not like we're asking for overall pay increases. In fact, we'd get paid less even with the salary increase.

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

Instead of having 200 partners with equity shares and 200 "partners" who are salaried partners-in-name-only who make a hair more than senior associates, A&P has 300 equity partners.

Even so, their PPP of $1.3MM with 300-odd partners is abysmal. You could shave off 1/3 of their partnership and they'd still be lagging the likes of DLA Piper and Winston & Strawn in terms of PPP.

That's fair. My only point is that with A&P would probably be more in-line with the 1.6-2M crowd like Covington, Hogan, Pillsbury, Sheppard Mullin, etc. To be clear, I'm not defending any A&P comp decisions. I'm saying the opposite - there's no excuse for A&P being cheap, and any PPP noise is BS.

[Anonymous User]

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

Just sayin to those following another thread here, this is why lawyers aren't coders at FAANGS.

[Anonymous User]

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

Just sayin to those following another thread here, this is why lawyers aren't coders at FAANGS.

[Anonymous User]

A lot of references in here requesting DPW associates to "ask what is going on." Is this a serious request, or are people joking? I'm curious as to what type of relationship these posters have with the partners where they would feel it is appropriate to just willy-nilly discuss compensation with them (absent, perhaps in the context of an annual performance review)?

I'm a senior associate that has worked at a v5 and now at another v50 and have had good relationships with the partners that I worked with at both firms, but would never feel comfortable bringing this up in either context. Maybe this is firm-culture dependent?

The only scenario where I could see this where there is a junior partner who the associate worked with when now-partner was an associate. However, under these facts, I assume the junior partner is not even going to have the insight on firm comp decisions so why bother bringing it up.

It's not that deep bro.

Are you from the South original anon? I have zero problem discussing comp with partners (ones I work with and group heads)... would not personally be the one to raise my hand on a firmwide conference call but will and do absolutely bring it up in casual conversation. Everyone in biglaw is in it for the money, no one does this purely for the love of the game (except maybe a handful of absolute psychos) and lack of transparency only benefits those at the top. Also recruiters are still throwing six figure sign-ons left and right - comp is absolutely not taboo these days and hasn't been for sometime at most major firms and outdated attitudes only hurt the masses.

Not, not from the south. Just apparently an associate that is behind the times.

Sorry for the visceral response, but have taken a look at some of these regional "lifestyle" firms from time to time that are more black box (at partner and associate levels) and found that a lot of folks are grossly underpaid when comp is black box.

[Anonymous User]

Fenwick match per biglawboiz

[Anonymous User]

Well it's after 5pm ET... see y'all back here on Monday.

[Anonymous User]

How does having only equity partners make PPP lower?

Just sayin to those following another thread here, this is why lawyers aren't coders at FAANGS.

Original post by VentureMBA no less . Tbf, this type of MBA student is emblematic of the type of JD-MBAs at my t14.