Milbank/Davis Polk/Cravath Scale: NYC to 215-415k Forum

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:11 pm

Just a lowly 2L who accepted an SA offer, so I’m new to following salary increases.

Is it likely that a substantial number of other v100s will match still, or is this (pretty small list) probably it?

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Wanderingdrock » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:11 pm
Just a lowly 2L who accepted an SA offer, so I’m new to following salary increases.

Is it likely that a substantial number of other v100s will match still, or is this (pretty small list) probably it?
A substantial number of other V100s will match.

It's a fair question, but the same question is asked every time there's a compensation increase and most V100s end up matching every time. The thing that changes is which firms are successful enough to be in the V100...

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:32 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:11 pm
Just a lowly 2L who accepted an SA offer, so I’m new to following salary increases.

Is it likely that a substantial number of other v100s will match still, or is this (pretty small list) probably it?
The former: a substantial number of other biglaw firms will match.

As a heuristic, you probably won't be far off if you assume that every firm which raised to $205K last summer will eventually raise to $215K in the coming weeks/months. (That ATL link also gives you a sense for speed, i.e., which firms will eagerly match $215K this week and which firms will drag their feet for a long time.)

The relative lack of matches across the V100 *may* reflect the market's perception that some firm will come over the top of Milbank. Then again, it's only been like 4 days (and really only 2 business days) since the Milbank announcement, so "relative lack of matches" is a bit of a stretch.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:06 pm

The relative speed of well-off but not super-elite firms matching + silence from V10 reminds me of the Nov/December 2021 bonus announcements, where a few rando firms quickly joined Cravath in the hopes no one would re-raise, but the actual market wasn't set for a couple weeks after Cravath's announcement.

Not sure if that means we'll necessarily get a re-raise from DPW or someone this time around, just *feels* similar.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:06 pm
The relative speed of well-off but not super-elite firms matching + silence from V10 reminds me of the Nov/December 2021 bonus announcements, where a few rando firms quickly joined Cravath in the hopes no one would re-raise, but the actual market wasn't set for a couple weeks after Cravath's announcement.

Not sure if that means we'll necessarily get a re-raise from DPW or someone this time around, just *feels* similar.
Let’s hope so! Whenever a firm like Baker matches that quickly it’s definitely a sign they are begging the market not to come over the top.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:54 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:18 pm
glitched wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:49 pm
No news = good news, right? Firms are waiting for DPW to go above it seems.
WH associate here and I agree. I think the only reason we matched now is because the firm was going to send out comp letters today anyway with bonus info and everyone's new salary based on class year. That would not have gone over well without recognition of the interim* increase in market. Otherwise we'd be waiting for the market to move as usual.

*Only temporary until DPW tops it.
Can somebody lay out the logic behind why DPW would raise? I want to believe it to be true but am skeptical.
Statistically speaking, data clearly shows that DPW partners have the biggest dicks of any BigLaw firm. Like, inconveniently, painfully large. And they need a way to show it to everyone.

In all seriousness though, it’s a combo of ego and the intangible benefits of preftige (in recruiting and possibly in the perception of clients that they’re hiring a “market leader”). As someone outside NYC I didn’t really give much of a crap about DPW until they started doing this kind of thing.

The effect for Milbank is probably much stronger, going from successful-but-kinda-obscure to household name in an instant.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by NoLongerALurker » Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 4:18 pm
glitched wrote:
Mon Jan 24, 2022 3:49 pm
No news = good news, right? Firms are waiting for DPW to go above it seems.
WH associate here and I agree. I think the only reason we matched now is because the firm was going to send out comp letters today anyway with bonus info and everyone's new salary based on class year. That would not have gone over well without recognition of the interim* increase in market. Otherwise we'd be waiting for the market to move as usual.

*Only temporary until DPW tops it.
Can somebody lay out the logic behind why DPW would raise? I want to believe it to be true but am skeptical.
Statistically speaking, data clearly shows that DPW partners have the biggest dicks of any BigLaw firm. Like, inconveniently, painfully large. And they need a way to show it to everyone.

In all seriousness though, it’s a combo of ego and the intangible benefits of preftige (in recruiting and possibly in the perception of clients that they’re hiring a “market leader”). As someone outside NYC I didn’t really give much of a crap about DPW until they started doing this kind of thing.

The effect for Milbank is probably much stronger, going from successful-but-kinda-obscure to household name in an instant.
Dicks, Penises and Wangs LLP aka Davis Polk and Wardwell Large Large Penises.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Stevenmilbe » Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:06 am

Is today the day?

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:05 pm

NRF circulated an internal email noting they will match but waiting for any additional increase (essentially waiting for DPW to announce) before they match officially…will be retroactive to Jan 1st.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by DoveBodyWash » Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:19 pm

Stevenmilbe wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:06 am
Is today the day?
My bet is it's announced Thursday or Friday. Partnership needs to discuss/approve, then get accounting/payroll teed up, announce, checks go out Monday.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Yardbird » Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:10 pm

DoveBodyWash wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 12:19 pm
Stevenmilbe wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 11:06 am
Is today the day?
My bet is it's announced Thursday or Friday. Partnership needs to discuss/approve, then get accounting/payroll teed up, announce, checks go out Monday.
At this point raises would probably be reflected in the first paycheck in February even if announced today. Payroll can’t adjust that quickly.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm

DLA match. Just got the email.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by MiltonsOpus » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.
Quoted anon. Yes, retroactive to Jan 1.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:36 am

Any chance that someone other than DPW raises or adds special bonuses? Possibilities:
-Cravath (looking to salvage their chances of maintaining V1 status)
-STB (haven't made comp. headlines in a while, so looking to get back into the game)
-Willkie (started spring bonuses last year and appears to be on a Kirkland-esque hiring spree, looking to continue making a splash)

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.
I used to work at one of the firms that matched quickly. They used to take foreeeever to match and I think a lot of people complained about that because it left people with the impression that they were actually considering *not* matching, and I guess they decided to fix because that because doesn't actually cost them anything. So now they just match right away all the time. So I think for at least some firms it's a morale/looking good thing (essentially signaling to associates and the market that they will always match and that the firm's financial condition is so strong that they don't even need to think about it).

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:22 pm

Looks like Norton Rose expects further raises:

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/norton-rose-no-match/

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:22 pm
Looks like Norton Rose expects further raises:

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/norton-rose-no-match/
If they're signaling they are willing to match a further increase, then why don't they just pay it? Just do it. Go ahead and announce 230-400. Be the change you want to see.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:34 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:14 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.
I used to work at one of the firms that matched quickly. They used to take foreeeever to match and I think a lot of people complained about that because it left people with the impression that they were actually considering *not* matching, and I guess they decided to fix because that because doesn't actually cost them anything. So now they just match right away all the time. So I think for at least some firms it's a morale/looking good thing (essentially signaling to associates and the market that they will always match and that the firm's financial condition is so strong that they don't even need to think about it).
At my V5 here, I don't think anyone really cares about the timing of our announcement. We all know that the firm will match whatever the market settles at. Also, at least at my firm, there is a decent amount of red tape that comes with announcing salary hikes (you need to go through various approvals/votes, get payroll setup etc.) Why go through that process twice?

They're just waiting for Cravath/DPW to make the move and then will go through the process once. No real need to rush to do it.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:22 pm
Looks like Norton Rose expects further raises:

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/norton-rose-no-match/
If they're signaling they are willing to match a further increase, then why don't they just pay it? Just do it. Go ahead and announce 230-400. Be the change you want to see.
MWE did the same thing this past summer

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 11:36 am
Any chance that someone other than DPW raises or adds special bonuses? Possibilities:
-Cravath (looking to salvage their chances of maintaining V1 status)
-STB (haven't made comp. headlines in a while, so looking to get back into the game)
-Willkie (started spring bonuses last year and appears to be on a Kirkland-esque hiring spree, looking to continue making a splash)
I would be surprised to see anyone other than DPW at this point. But I would have to guess STB is the most likely of the 3 mentioned (albeit not that likely). Would love to see it though.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:18 pm

Winston and Strawn match

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.
I get your comment was a general one, but still I don’t get why TLS loves taking potshots at DLA. I work there and do an annualized 2000 hours, log off most nights around 8pm with no weekend work, clients don’t expect late night or weekend responsiveness, partners and associates in my team are pleasant, WFH and remote options are encouraged. My situation mirrors the other associates in my group. I’m paid market with the option of an above market bonus. It’s not heaven, I mean it’s still biglaw, but I’ve worked at a more ‘prestigious’ firm and this team is significantly better. Compare that to some first and second year lawyers at V10s who also earn market and hate their lives. Of course, there’s pros and cons to every decision, but IMO the DLA route would suit a lot of people.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Tribble_47 » Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 12:22 pm
Looks like Norton Rose expects further raises:

https://abovethelaw.com/2022/01/norton-rose-no-match/
If they're signaling they are willing to match a further increase, then why don't they just pay it? Just do it. Go ahead and announce 230-400. Be the change you want to see.
Recognizing that further increases are likely isn't the same as wanting them to happen. Why would any firm want to pay more than it believes it has to in order to stay competitive? Some firms market themselves as comp leaders, but AFAIK, Norton Rose has never been one of them. It will match whatever the market settles at, but it would rather things not go any higher, because it doesn't want to pay more than necessary.

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Re: Milbank Scale: NYC to 215K - 385K

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jan 26, 2022 7:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 6:37 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jan 26, 2022 10:42 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Jan 25, 2022 7:13 pm
DLA match. Just got the email.
Sorry if I missed the memo, but are we agreeing that "match" means retroactive to January 1? Is that what DLA is saying?

Also, continue to be amazed that it's the non-elite V100s matching so quickly. Don't know if they're trying to look good, or holding out hope there's no re-raise, or if it's just that DPW and STB will all eventually match Milbank and not go over but they're just in no hurry because no one there is stressing the match will come soon anyway.
I get your comment was a general one, but still I don’t get why TLS loves taking potshots at DLA. I work there and do an annualized 2000 hours, log off most nights around 8pm with no weekend work, clients don’t expect late night or weekend responsiveness, partners and associates in my team are pleasant, WFH and remote options are encouraged. My situation mirrors the other associates in my group. I’m paid market with the option of an above market bonus. It’s not heaven, I mean it’s still biglaw, but I’ve worked at a more ‘prestigious’ firm and this team is significantly better. Compare that to some first and second year lawyers at V10s who also earn market and hate their lives. Of course, there’s pros and cons to every decision, but IMO the DLA route would suit a lot of people.
Not sure that was a potshot at DLA. I too work at a lower V50 and am glad I'm not killing myself at DPW/STB/SullCrom, but it's just a fact that compared to those firms, mine (and DLA) are non-elite. DLA may be perfectly good, but no one (including you I take it) is comparing it to the V15s in terms of prestige or being a market leader. Same goes for Cadwalader, MWE, Goodwin, and plenty of other firms that have matched - quality firms, but they're not the *real* big boys.

Also, I annualize 2000 hours too, but am a far cry from "no weekend work," so, definitely jealous of your situation.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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