How does V10 Partnership work? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what a first year nonequity partner at STB makes? How long before you're up for equity? Looks like STB is really adopting the Kirkland model and increasing the nonequity tier, with a relatively huge "partner" class in 2021 (31 partners).

much more than a k&e “partner” where you lose money, more like latham than k&e for comp and potential equity

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what a first year nonequity partner at STB makes? How long before you're up for equity? Looks like STB is really adopting the Kirkland model and increasing the nonequity tier, with a relatively huge "partner" class in 2021 (31 partners).

Certain counsels make $1M and above at STB.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what a first year nonequity partner at STB makes? How long before you're up for equity? Looks like STB is really adopting the Kirkland model and increasing the nonequity tier, with a relatively huge "partner" class in 2021 (31 partners).

I don't know anything about what STB is doing but I caution saying a firm adding non-equity partners is "adopting the Kirkland model." At Kirkland you become a non-equity partner just like at any other firm you would become a 7th year associate. It is essentially pro forma. There is no real funnelling action between years 6 and 7 than there would be at other firms. An NSP (Kirkland non-equity partner in KE lingo) makes what 7th, 8th, 9th year associates make at other firms for their first three years or whatever. The differences are compensation related but not directly comp itself (NSPs pay their full healthcare, pay for their own payroll, have larger retirement contributions deducted).

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what a first year nonequity partner at STB makes? How long before you're up for equity? Looks like STB is really adopting the Kirkland model and increasing the nonequity tier, with a relatively huge "partner" class in 2021 (31 partners).

Certain counsels make $1M and above at STB.

!!! wow, seven figures as counsel. Pretty sweet gig...

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what a first year nonequity partner at STB makes? How long before you're up for equity? Looks like STB is really adopting the Kirkland model and increasing the nonequity tier, with a relatively huge "partner" class in 2021 (31 partners).

Certain counsels make $1M and above at STB.

!!! wow, seven figures as counsel. Pretty sweet gig...

These are counsels who are essentially junior partners for the most difficult clients and partners. In some cases they have been offered equity elsewhere but chose to stay. They are generally billing will north of 2500 a year.

[Sackboy]

!!! wow, seven figures as counsel. Pretty sweet gig...

These are counsels who are essentially junior partners for the most difficult clients and partners. In some cases they have been offered equity elsewhere but chose to stay. They are generally billing will north of 2500 a year.

Yeah, it's kind of like lmao @ any of these gigs being "sweet gigs". The preffftige and paychecks hit peoples' brains so hard on this fora that they forget that life is more than trading 40 working years so you can retire for 20 years with declining health in a nice Miami home. Biglaw partnership is filled with endless stories of misery, divorce, and suicide, but, yeah, sweet gig to make $1M and work 60hrs/wk. while not even having the safety that equity brings to your employment.

[Anonymous User]

!!! wow, seven figures as counsel. Pretty sweet gig...

These are counsels who are essentially junior partners for the most difficult clients and partners. In some cases they have been offered equity elsewhere but chose to stay. They are generally billing will north of 2500 a year.

Yeah, it's kind of like lmao @ any of these gigs being "sweet gigs". The preffftige and paychecks hit peoples' brains so hard on this fora that they forget that life is more than trading 40 working years so you can retire for 20 years with declining health in a nice Miami home. Biglaw partnership is filled with endless stories of misery, divorce, and suicide, but, yeah, sweet gig to make $1M and work 60hrs/wk. while not even having the safety that equity brings to your employment.

lol true. I guess I just meant like it's definitely less stressful than feeling the additional pressure of having to keep existing/bring in new clients as a partner. I'm assuming it's a situation of being really good at some technical aspect of some deal and being relied upon/trusted to do it again and again, which, relatively speaking, is not a terrible outcome in a career. Of course, I 100% agree that any job in BigLaw isn't "sweet," much less ideal, for mental and physical health...

[Anonymous User]

Does Gibson Dunn have a two-tiered partnership? They seem to have more Of Counsel than a lot of firms, so I didn't think so, but I am not sure.

GDC has a two-tiered partnership in addition to a separate Of Counsel position. If you want to stick around indefinitely but can't/won't make partner, that's where you go.

[Crazystallion]

(Reconceiving the Tournament of Lawyers: Tracking, Seeding, and Information Control in the Internal Labor Markets of Elite Law Firms, 84 VA. L. REV. 1581 (1998)


"Probably most importantly, Wilkins and Gulati argue that law firms sort almost immediately those associates who will make partner from those who will not. Given the large sums of money it costs to recruit a single new associate, this would seem to make little sense. Several interviewees stated that they recruit for future partners. This is not unavoidably inconsistent with Wilkins and Gulati’s assertion of dual associate tracks. Still, if firms are able to determine almost immediately who can make partner, it is puzzling why firms exert so much time and money recruiting so many they know will be profitable for so little time, and a partner for no time at all. If the stellar associate is “careful, well organized, [attuned] to detail, and [equipped with] a high boredom threshold,” this does not seem to be what elite law firms (claim to) seek. They seek fit, which is sometimes equated with passion and would seem to equate poorly with high boredom thresholds."

(Above, Tom Ginsburg & Jeffrey A. Wolf, The Market for Elite Law Firm Associates, 31 FLA. ST. U. L. REV. 909 (2004) at pg 962)

[Anonymous User]

Don’t be weird...
Remember partners can never be trusted.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it have to do with making partner?

[Anonymous User]

Don’t be weird...
Remember partners can never be trusted.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it have to do with making partner?

Diff anon but I think they mean that partners will try to get you to spend time on stuff that doesn't actually matter and tell you it's how you make partner. But they just want you to do their work for them. Really the way to make partner is to last until your a senior then build a book of business.

[nealric]

Don’t be weird...
Remember partners can never be trusted.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it have to do with making partner?

Diff anon but I think they mean that partners will try to get you to spend time on stuff that doesn't actually matter and tell you it's how you make partner. But they just want you to do their work for them. Really the way to make partner is to last until your a senior then build a book of business.

This certainly happens, but it's not necessarily completely untrue or malicious. The partners need something done, and consider the associates the means for doing it. At the end of the day, the way to make partner is to have the partners advocate for you to be partner, and making the partners happy (whether that be with billable work or pet projects) is one way to get them to advocate for you. That said, things can go off the rails when partners only think of their priorities and forget that you also need certain development opportunities, billable hours, realization rates, etc. if firm management is going to go for you as a partner. And there are of course some toxic personalities who just use the partnership carrot as a way to abuse you.

As for "building a book of business"- that's not really a thing at the v10 for the most part. V10 clients aren't going to associates for work. The cases where associates are bringing in work that a v10 would care about usually involve some really unusual connections. Lower down the firm hierarchy, it's a bit more realistic for an associate to build a book, but it's still pretty exceptional for associates to originate more than a token amount of business in biglaw.

[temp69420]

Don’t be weird...
Remember partners can never be trusted.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it have to do with making partner?

Diff anon but I think they mean that partners will try to get you to spend time on stuff that doesn't actually matter and tell you it's how you make partner. But they just want you to do their work for them. Really the way to make partner is to last until your a senior then build a book of business.

This certainly happens, but it's not necessarily completely untrue or malicious. The partners need something done, and consider the associates the means for doing it. At the end of the day, the way to make partner is to have the partners advocate for you to be partner, and making the partners happy (whether that be with billable work or pet projects) is one way to get them to advocate for you. That said, things can go off the rails when partners only think of their priorities and forget that you also need certain development opportunities, billable hours, realization rates, etc. if firm management is going to go for you as a partner. And there are of course some toxic personalities who just use the partnership carrot as a way to abuse you.

As for "building a book of business"- that's not really a thing at the v10 for the most part. V10 clients aren't going to associates for work. The cases where associates are bringing in work that a v10 would care about usually involve some really unusual connections. Lower down the firm hierarchy, it's a bit more realistic for an associate to build a book, but it's still pretty exceptional for associates to originate more than a token amount of business in biglaw.

Building on that, it's important to recognize that even most junior partners (at least in the areas I know well) are not generating much business on their own. They'll be instrumental in keeping clients, and they may play significant roles on pitches, but even very strong junior partners -- say in the 35-45 age range -- will typically not have anything that they can say they fully generated on their own.

[nealric]

Don’t be weird...
Remember partners can never be trusted.

What is that supposed to mean? And what does it have to do with making partner?

Diff anon but I think they mean that partners will try to get you to spend time on stuff that doesn't actually matter and tell you it's how you make partner. But they just want you to do their work for them. Really the way to make partner is to last until your a senior then build a book of business.

This certainly happens, but it's not necessarily completely untrue or malicious. The partners need something done, and consider the associates the means for doing it. At the end of the day, the way to make partner is to have the partners advocate for you to be partner, and making the partners happy (whether that be with billable work or pet projects) is one way to get them to advocate for you. That said, things can go off the rails when partners only think of their priorities and forget that you also need certain development opportunities, billable hours, realization rates, etc. if firm management is going to go for you as a partner. And there are of course some toxic personalities who just use the partnership carrot as a way to abuse you.

As for "building a book of business"- that's not really a thing at the v10 for the most part. V10 clients aren't going to associates for work. The cases where associates are bringing in work that a v10 would care about usually involve some really unusual connections. Lower down the firm hierarchy, it's a bit more realistic for an associate to build a book, but it's still pretty exceptional for associates to originate more than a token amount of business in biglaw.

Building on that, it's important to recognize that even most junior partners (at least in the areas I know well) are not generating much business on their own. They'll be instrumental in keeping clients, and they may play significant roles on pitches, but even very strong junior partners -- say in the 35-45 age range -- will typically not have anything that they can say they fully generated on their own.

Yes. A big litmus test for any potential partner is going to be: if we assign a matter from an established client to this person, will that client want to continue to retain our firm for future matters? Will their independent handling of a matter help or hurt the reputation of the firm? Associates may be given room to run, but they are always (at least theoretically) under the supervision of a partner, who is to intervene and take responsibility if an associate screws up. A partner is someone the firm will trust to work unsupervised.

Of course, passing that test is necessary but not sufficient. You also need the politics to work out and the economic stars to align.