How long before I get let go? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I've been at my firm for about 14 months months now, and I've gotten to the conviction it isn't for me. It's not that I hate what I do, I've just realized I'm not good at it. It's a worry I've had since the start, but I'm totally not detail oriented, I suck at taking notes, etc. I've realized this in law school as well and the only reason I did a decent job there is because I'm a fast thinker, can analyze things pretty well and can draw logical connections quickly, and am pretty good at writing. But slogging through a 100 page document and leaving comments on minutiae or listening in on calls and putting down notes (I'm ESL, which is another reason I might not be the best at it) is just not something I excel at. My mind totally switches off. I also have some solid social anxiety and in the future me leading calls is a thought that's already making me break out in sweats.

I've thought about just leaving law altogether (or perhaps doing a tax LLM, after I look more into what a career in tax law is like). Bit I kind of need to recoup my investment I made into law school so have decided to stay put until they ask me to get out. But I've had multiple times where I get an assignment back and see I've missed the simplest things or attended calls where I was asked for my notes and I just barely manage to piece something together (after checking in with other juniors on the call, who helped me out). I have no doubt in my mind that at some point the partners will be like "yeah...it's time to go."

I was wondering if any veterans here have a clue on when this might happen? Of course, the market is hot right now, so it's unlikely I'll get fired any time soon (and I'm sure they're still expecting me to improve). But what do you think is a likely time period to expect to get axed? I'm assuming I'll first get a talk about how I got to improve and get another 6-12 months to get it together? I've had my annual review recently, where it was indicated I need to be bit more detail-focused, with the caveat that it's okay for now, as I'm still pretty junior and it's all probably a bit overwhelming so don't think it's time to start packing yet, but still.

[CanadianWolf]

How long have you been with this firm or engaged in the practice of law ?

Why are you interested in earning an LLM degree in taxation ? Any relevant background ?

[Anonymous User]

You got time. If your review was "you're new but be more attentive to detail" that's not that bad. And remember, a lot of associates are making silly mistakes or missing obvious things. I don't think you're on your way out, probably have a couple years as long as you're hitting billable hours targets.

[ghostoftraynor]

Unless you really screw up you should have until next review. How that goes completely depends on how bad your mistakes really are and how busy the firm is also obviously practice and firm dependent. Some are much quicker in trimming the fat than others.

[Anonymous User]

How long have you been with this firm or engaged in the practice of law ?

Why are you interested in earning an LLM degree in taxation ? Any relevant background ?

OP here. Graduated law school last year and joined the firm right thereafter. So been here for about 14 months, which is the total extent of my time in law.

Tax law is mostly because I really liked the classes in law school (basically only liked these actually). Of course, that might not translate well to a job, so have to do more research on it before doing something as all-in as an LLM. No other relevant background.

[Anonymous User]

How long have you been with this firm or engaged in the practice of law ?

Why are you interested in earning an LLM degree in taxation ? Any relevant background ?

OP here. Graduated law school last year and joined the firm right thereafter. So been here for about 14 months, which is the total extent of my time in law.

Tax law is mostly because I really liked the classes in law school (basically only liked these actually). Of course, that might not translate well to a job, so have to do more research on it before doing something as all-in as an LLM. No other relevant background.

Can you try and get some work from the tax group at your firm? If you've taken some tax classes you don't need an LLM, you can probably just lateral to a tax group (maybe lose a year of seniority). But first make sure you actually want to do it. Iow make sure your issues are with corporate and not just with law.

[CanadianWolf]

Consider applying to a few tax llm programs now so that you have at least have this option next fall and, regardless of the reason that you separate from your current firm, it will appear to be a planned departure initiated by you.

If you do earn an llm in taxation, most employment is at Big 4 accounting firms which pay much lower than does biglaw.

P.S. If you need more specific advice PM me.

[glitched]

Are you corporate or litigation? You should try your hand at IP litigation.

"I'm a fast thinker, can analyze things pretty well and can draw logical connections quickly, and am pretty good at writing." - these are really good traits for IP lit.

Sure typos are important for briefs and other filings, but generally it's not a deal breaker. Plus briefs and filings have many hands that go through it, including your proofreaders so those get pared down quickly. And they're 25 page double spaced documents so not nearly as tedious as seeing typos for agreements.

[hdr]

If people continue to give you ~150 hours of billable work a month then your work is good enough and you don't have to worry in the near-term. You're fine until your workload drops and you stop generating sufficient revenue for the firm.

[Anonymous User]

“I can’t stand minutiae or slogging over tedious details … I’m considering tax”
This seems to me (a tax lawyer) like a misstep — most tax work is transactional and detail/minutiae-heavy.

[Definitely Not North]

“I can’t stand minutiae or slogging over tedious details … I’m considering tax”

[Anonymous User]

Are you corporate or litigation? You should try your hand at IP litigation.

"I'm a fast thinker, can analyze things pretty well and can draw logical connections quickly, and am pretty good at writing." - these are really good traits for IP lit.

Sure typos are important for briefs and other filings, but generally it's not a deal breaker. Plus briefs and filings have many hands that go through it, including your proofreaders so those get pared down quickly. And they're 25 page double spaced documents so not nearly as tedious as seeing typos for agreements.

As an IP litigator who just made partner and had a lot of these same thoughts as a junior associate, I agree with this--especially if you have any technical background or aptitude. While there are a lot of IP litigators that are detail oriented in the same way that you are talking about (and just in general, a lot of people who chose law are wired this way), IP litigation can really reward strategic, flexible thinking.

Even if you don't change practices, I would encourage you to try and look at how any differences between how you think versus the majority of your peers could be an advantage, rather than a handicap. I've found the type of mental processing you are describing is rarer in law, but actually very valuable at higher levels. You should try and make friends that can check you on details, but which might benefit from your bigger picture strategic thinking as something they have more issues with.

I will also say, again as someone who had the same thoughts about not being detail oriented enough for this job early, that it gets better. Partly because as I note above you eventually have more control over your team, and can look for people that cover for what you are not as good at. But also because you will just learn how to be more detail oriented where it matters. Like any new skill, part of it is just practice and routine.

[the lsat failure]

“I can’t stand minutiae or slogging over tedious details … I’m considering tax”

[objctnyrhnr]

What about just any lit? Probably not white collar but normal lit.

[CanadianWolf]

Some jobs for tax attorneys are primarily (or exclusively) research and writing oriented and do not involve dealing with minutiae/tedious details and excel spreadsheets.

[Prudent_Jurist]

What about just any lit? Probably not white collar but normal lit.

Second this. I guess doc review is kind of detail oriented but not really.

OP emphasizes writing as a strength and analytical thinking. Motion practice seems like a great fit.

Depos require quick thinking as does trial (if you ever see the courtroom these days).

I’d try to switch to lit before thinking of drastic, alternative career options.

[Anonymous User]

Even if you are going to be let go, they usually give you some time to find another place. You could leverage that into a signing bonus and guaranteed EOY bonus in corporate, which will put you even closer to recovering your investment in law school, then endure one more year. Who knows, maybe you'll hit your stride at a new firm/group/etc.

[Anonymous User]

What about just any lit? Probably not white collar but normal lit.

Is white collar lit particularly hard to get into? Not really in the same position as OP, but also thinking about lateraling, and then hoping to get into white collar lit, but am also in transactional. Time to give up that dream?