When to let current firm know I’m lateraling Forum

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When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:32 pm

I have almost completed my first year at a big law firm and I am set to lateral to a new firm at the end of January. I was not planning on letting my current firm know about my new position until two weeks out because (1) I want to avoid the clawback provisions and (2) I have worked a lot this year and would like my bonus. I was just added to a trial team for a trial set to begin the last week of January. I am worried that by not letting my firm know I’m leaving, I could now cause more disruptions than normal. I’m leaving for a new non-litigation related practice, so I don’t think it’s likely I’ll still professionally interact with my current colleagues, but I also like and respect them (I’m leaving solely because I really hate litigation), and I do not want to leave them in too big of a bind.

I really don’t know when I should let them know I will be leaving, and I would appreciate any advice.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm

+1 to ideas on how best to approach this. I am starting at a new firm in January. I would like to collect a paycheck from my current firm for December. When should I give notice? If it's too early in December, I won't get the December paycheck. If it's late in December, it won't be enough notice. Thoughts appreciated!

Also, anyone have experience where they give notice, scale back on work, and so the current (old) firm doesn't want to pay them their last month's paycheck because hours during that last month are unusually low?

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anon-non-anon » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm

I would consider speaking with a partner you're closest with sometime soon, or senior associates you're close with who know other ppl have left. They won't not pay you your salary, and i think for most firms the bonus is just based on still being there on a certain day. What day that is depends on the firm. I haven't heard of anyone having it taken away because they were planning on leaving, but it could happen I assume.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by DiligentSage » Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm

Your firm will get over it and staff someone else. First years are very fungible and to your point, you're not burning any bridges since you're exiting to a completely different practice group. Really doubt anyone will remember this in short order either.

Your chief concern is to make sure you get your EOY bonus so do not give notice until the money clears in your account.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:05 pm

When will your bonus be paid? My firm will pay on 12/31/21, but some pay into January or even later. So be sure you know this.

You do not know owe more than two weeks notice, nor will you burn bridges by providing "only" two weeks notice (which as a first year is certainly sufficient). You should not provide more notice if those are your concerns, especially when doing so might result in you getting less money. I disagree with the earlier poster who suggested quietly informing a trusted partner. I would just keep quiet.

It is a 100% professional move to keep doing work up until two weeks out and then informing teams and doing a reasonable amount of transition work to get someone else up to speed during the two-week period.

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Definitely Not North

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Definitely Not North » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:24 pm

Do not give notice until your bonus is in your bank account.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:44 pm

Definitely Not North wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:24 pm
Do not give notice until your bonus is in your bank account.
This. I would give two week notice the day after the bonus money is in your bank account.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:44 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:24 pm
Do not give notice until your bonus is in your bank account.
This. I would give two week notice the day after the bonus money is in your bank account.

If you give 2 weeks notice the day after bonus hits account, assuming that is in early December (say, Monday Dec 6), you would leave the current firm around Dec 20th. And not start at the new firm until, say, Monday Jan 3. So then you're not getting paid for the interim period. Would it be bad practice to just not give notice until later in Dec, so that you are getting paid the whole time without any gaps of a week or two (which is a few thousand dollars)?

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 pm

Accidental duplicate

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by bwh8813 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:08 pm

Definitely Not North wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:24 pm
Do not give notice until your bonus is in your bank account.
This is the most important part of the response. The rest depends on the timing of the bonus payment and what you want to do. If your bonus payment is 12/31, it's up to you if you want to give notice then and take a couple weeks off in between or if you want to work more into January to collect more pay and give notice mid-January. I'd personally take some time off. Your firm will not stiff you on a paycheck and the final paycheck will be pro rated if your last day isn't a pay day.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:24 pm

I have zero experience lateraling as I’ve been at one firm my whole career. But I don’t think I’d be comfortable giving a team going to trial in January two weeks notice. You are probably replaceable if you are just a first year and getting added now. But if you think you won’t work with these people again, the legal world is smaller than you think. You want to be remembered well, or not remembered. Not remembered badly.

I’d give as much notice as you can (after the bonus payout) and offer to work as much up to your start date at the new firm as you can. They might not take you up on it, but doing as much as you can to help the handoff will help not burn bridges.

Edit: oh, and if your firm has a clawback provision they enforce, it probably means you are not getting a bonus even if it clears your account. I don’t think many firms actually enforce their clawback, but I am again not the person to ask (never lateraled).

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 7:25 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:24 pm
I have zero experience lateraling as I’ve been at one firm my whole career. But I don’t think I’d be comfortable giving a team going to trial in January two weeks notice. You are probably replaceable if you are just a first year and getting added now. But if you think you won’t work with these people again, the legal world is smaller than you think. You want to be remembered well, or not remembered. Not remembered badly.

I’d give as much notice as you can (after the bonus payout) and offer to work as much up to your start date at the new firm as you can. They might not take you up on it, but doing as much as you can to help the handoff will help not burn bridges.

Edit: oh, and if your firm has a clawback provision they enforce, it probably means you are not getting a bonus even if it clears your account. I don’t think many firms actually enforce their clawback, but I am again not the person to ask (never lateraled).
If I was preparing to give the opening statement or something, then yeah I’d figure something else out. As a first year, two weeks is going to be fine. They’ll find someone within 48 hours to go instead.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:03 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:05 pm
If you give 2 weeks notice the day after bonus hits account, assuming that is in early December (say, Monday Dec 6), you would leave the current firm around Dec 20th. And not start at the new firm until, say, Monday Jan 3. So then you're not getting paid for the interim period. Would it be bad practice to just not give notice until later in Dec, so that you are getting paid the whole time without any gaps of a week or two (which is a few thousand dollars)?
No, that is not bad practice. The longer you are willing to work at your current firm, the better for your current firm. Many people like to take 2-3-4-5 week vacations between firms to recharge.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by nixy » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm
Also, anyone have experience where they give notice, scale back on work, and so the current (old) firm doesn't want to pay them their last month's paycheck because hours during that last month are unusually low?
They can't not pay you your paycheck, that's illegal.

They could in theory fire you as soon as you give notice, and then they wouldn't have to pay you, but they're not going to do that.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Dcc617 » Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:36 pm

DiligentSage wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:58 pm
Your firm will get over it and staff someone else. First years are very fungible and to your point, you're not burning any bridges since you're exiting to a completely different practice group. Really doubt anyone will remember this in short order either.

Your chief concern is to make sure you get your EOY bonus so do not give notice until the money clears in your account.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:06 pm

nixy wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm
Also, anyone have experience where they give notice, scale back on work, and so the current (old) firm doesn't want to pay them their last month's paycheck because hours during that last month are unusually low?
They can't not pay you your paycheck, that's illegal.

They could in theory fire you as soon as you give notice, and then they wouldn't have to pay you, but they're not going to do that.
I was thinking more like, at the end of the month they see that for that last 7-10 days (after I'd given notice but was still employed at the old firm), my hours dipped really low because technically I was still employed and "transitioning" my cases to others, but in practice that doesn't require much time, so my hours would be super low at the end there. But yeah I guess they can't just not pay even if hours are low.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Definitely Not North » Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:11 pm

yeah, that's not a thing

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by nixy » Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 9:06 pm
nixy wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Nov 30, 2021 4:36 pm
Also, anyone have experience where they give notice, scale back on work, and so the current (old) firm doesn't want to pay them their last month's paycheck because hours during that last month are unusually low?
They can't not pay you your paycheck, that's illegal.

They could in theory fire you as soon as you give notice, and then they wouldn't have to pay you, but they're not going to do that.
I was thinking more like, at the end of the month they see that for that last 7-10 days (after I'd given notice but was still employed at the old firm), my hours dipped really low because technically I was still employed and "transitioning" my cases to others, but in practice that doesn't require much time, so my hours would be super low at the end there. But yeah I guess they can't just not pay even if hours are low.
You're salaried. They literally have to pay you your paycheck while you're employed there or they're breaking the law.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:01 am

Senior associate here with new position lined up starting mid January. Firm policy says 2 weeks and that’s exactly what I’m giving. Day after bonus hits my account, I am giving notice. I don’t owe anything more than that and don’t see any risk of burning bridges.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by CanadianWolf » Wed Dec 01, 2021 2:42 am

Two weeks notice is typically what firms expect.

As a first year associate, your departure is unlikely to cause any disruption or concern.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by almostperfectt » Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 am

In case you want a slightly different take from what everyone is saying (though I largely agree with them that a 1st/2nd year is fungible)....

Tell whoever is staffing, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be able to work on this trial past X date. Don't say why, don't give any more detail. They will find someone else, or they will ignore you and face whatever miniscule consequences.

The only downside to this is the staffing person may think less of you between now and when you leave, but who cares? You're leaving

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Definitely Not North » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 pm

almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 am
In case you want a slightly different take from what everyone is saying (though I largely agree with them that a 1st/2nd year is fungible)....

Tell whoever is staffing, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be able to work on this trial past X date. Don't say why, don't give any more detail. They will find someone else, or they will ignore you and face whatever miniscule consequences.

The only downside to this is the staffing person may think less of you between now and when you leave, but who cares? You're leaving
OP: "I will not be able to work on this trial past X date."

Staffing Person: "... why?"

OP: "..."

Staffing Person: "..."

A+ advice

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by almostperfectt » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:28 pm

Definitely Not North wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 pm
almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 am
In case you want a slightly different take from what everyone is saying (though I largely agree with them that a 1st/2nd year is fungible)....

Tell whoever is staffing, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be able to work on this trial past X date. Don't say why, don't give any more detail. They will find someone else, or they will ignore you and face whatever miniscule consequences.

The only downside to this is the staffing person may think less of you between now and when you leave, but who cares? You're leaving
OP: "I will not be able to work on this trial past X date."

Staffing Person: "... why?"

OP: "..."

Staffing Person: "..."

A+ advice
"Personal reasons"

Shit I've gone on leave without telling the firm why. Who cares what they think, it's just a job that OP literally won't have in two months.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:59 pm

almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:28 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 pm
almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 am
In case you want a slightly different take from what everyone is saying (though I largely agree with them that a 1st/2nd year is fungible)....

Tell whoever is staffing, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be able to work on this trial past X date. Don't say why, don't give any more detail. They will find someone else, or they will ignore you and face whatever miniscule consequences.

The only downside to this is the staffing person may think less of you between now and when you leave, but who cares? You're leaving
OP: "I will not be able to work on this trial past X date."

Staffing Person: "... why?"

OP: "..."

Staffing Person: "..."

A+ advice
"Personal reasons"

Shit I've gone on leave without telling the firm why. Who cares what they think, it's just a job that OP literally won't have in two months.
OR, and WAIT FOR IT, literally don't do this, collect your bonus and give your notice.

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Re: When to let current firm know I’m lateraling

Post by almostperfectt » Wed Dec 01, 2021 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:59 pm
almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:28 pm
Definitely Not North wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 12:25 pm
almostperfectt wrote:
Wed Dec 01, 2021 11:10 am
In case you want a slightly different take from what everyone is saying (though I largely agree with them that a 1st/2nd year is fungible)....

Tell whoever is staffing, in no uncertain terms, that you will not be able to work on this trial past X date. Don't say why, don't give any more detail. They will find someone else, or they will ignore you and face whatever miniscule consequences.

The only downside to this is the staffing person may think less of you between now and when you leave, but who cares? You're leaving
OP: "I will not be able to work on this trial past X date."

Staffing Person: "... why?"

OP: "..."

Staffing Person: "..."

A+ advice
"Personal reasons"

Shit I've gone on leave without telling the firm why. Who cares what they think, it's just a job that OP literally won't have in two months.
OR, and WAIT FOR IT, literally don't do this, collect your bonus and give your notice.
I'm not sure you understand OP's question. Yes, this is what 99% of people do, and it's not a bad idea at all in most cases. But what OP said was "but I also like and respect them (I’m leaving solely because I really hate litigation), and I do not want to leave them in too big of a bind."

SO, ACTUALLY ADDRESSING OP's question, yes there is a way to not screw your team if you truly believe your absence would do so. Just take yourself off the case. Any negative repercussion (outside of your own discomfort) will immediately be alleviated/forgotten when you leave the firm.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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