NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland Forum
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NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Received offers from both for their corporate practice as a mid-level lateral. Signing bonus is the same.
Arguments in favor of Kirkland:
-Latham associates have told me that Kirkland has better knowledge management group and training
-Bigger alumni network in in-house PE roles (I'm not interested in making partner and would consider in-house PE roles).
-Slightly higher comp (1.2x-1.7x of market bonus seems to be the range).
Arguments in favor of Latham:
-Kirkland's culture seems a little "cold" relative to Latham. Kirkland defectors have told me how they had no sense of community/camaraderie in the NY office.
-Kirkland seems to have higher turnover (see Business Insider article of relatively high turnover: https://www.businessinsider.com/kirklan ... al-2021-11)
-Have no idea how I would fare in Kirkland's "free market" system. Latham has staffers so dont need to hunt for work when slow.
Any insight would be appreciated.
Arguments in favor of Kirkland:
-Latham associates have told me that Kirkland has better knowledge management group and training
-Bigger alumni network in in-house PE roles (I'm not interested in making partner and would consider in-house PE roles).
-Slightly higher comp (1.2x-1.7x of market bonus seems to be the range).
Arguments in favor of Latham:
-Kirkland's culture seems a little "cold" relative to Latham. Kirkland defectors have told me how they had no sense of community/camaraderie in the NY office.
-Kirkland seems to have higher turnover (see Business Insider article of relatively high turnover: https://www.businessinsider.com/kirklan ... al-2021-11)
-Have no idea how I would fare in Kirkland's "free market" system. Latham has staffers so dont need to hunt for work when slow.
Any insight would be appreciated.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Culture at Latham makes this a no brainer IMO. Latham will also give you the same above market bonus multipliers if you are in the NY office.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Would be curious to know the signing bonus offers. I'm considering a K&E offer.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Hi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Source for your claim about Latham comp. being above market? Kirkland is known to compensate above market (I'd put the anecdotal range at 1.25x - 2x for 95% of attorneys there) and that shit adds up, especially with the way bonuses are being paid out these days.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
This is not above market, it's for extra hours which a bunch of firms do, including KE.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:07 pmHere you go
https://abovethelaw.com/2021/01/latham- ... -year-end/
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
FWIW, I'm a mid-level M&A associate at Latham and am running out of tolerance for how partners are staffing deals (and how they're seemingly not rushing to hire more folks to help out). On most of my recent deals it has been almost impossible to find 1st/2nd years to help out on substantive tasks/docs. Stubs are effectively useless, so all of the junior work effectively falls on mid-levels. It's absolutely unsustainable.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
I was a Latham junior in a non-NYC office. My impression of staffing was that it's effectively free market. While we do have a staffing system, most partners just reached out directly to people to get their deals staffed. It might be different in NYC, so YMMV.
On the bonus point, agreed it's not "above market" in the sense that Kirkland bonuses are. Maybe senior associates are getting monster bonuses, but we weren't seeing it at the junior/midlevel levels.
On the bonus point, agreed it's not "above market" in the sense that Kirkland bonuses are. Maybe senior associates are getting monster bonuses, but we weren't seeing it at the junior/midlevel levels.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Lol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Almost everyone gets the "median" bonus, though, even if they just hit hours. Then there's increments on top of that for hours and adjective levels.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
OP here.
$100k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:26 pmWould be curious to know the signing bonus offers. I'm considering a K&E offer.
Thank you. Two questions: What is the most typical exit route for Latham associates? Do you think making partner is a transparent process or is it more of a "black box"?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
I will add that Latham's interview timeline was much slower than other firms. Kirkland was very quick. I'm experiencing similar staffing issues at my current firm where I find myself stuck with junior tasks because I can't trust my stub; I think it's a global issue.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:46 pmFWIW, I'm a mid-level M&A associate at Latham and am running out of tolerance for how partners are staffing deals (and how they're seemingly not rushing to hire more folks to help out). On most of my recent deals it has been almost impossible to find 1st/2nd years to help out on substantive tasks/docs. Stubs are effectively useless, so all of the junior work effectively falls on mid-levels. It's absolutely unsustainable.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
On staffing, I heard the same thing from other Latham folks in the NY office regarding it being free market, so I guess it's almost a moot point to compare Kirkland and Latham on the staffing model. On the bonus system, agreed that Kirkland's comp is noticeably higher.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:51 pmI was a Latham junior in a non-NYC office. My impression of staffing was that it's effectively free market. While we do have a staffing system, most partners just reached out directly to people to get their deals staffed. It might be different in NYC, so YMMV.
On the bonus point, agreed it's not "above market" in the sense that Kirkland bonuses are. Maybe senior associates are getting monster bonuses, but we weren't seeing it at the junior/midlevel levels.
Care to explain the "run over by a truck" comment re Kirkland?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
This is inaccurate and is explained every year at the stupid bonus meeting. The bonus starts at market. If you are above median in hours for your class there is a bump which gets graded up. If you are above median for your reviews there is a bump which gets graded up depending on adjective. If you are median or below in both, no bump. The reason the median is always above market is because as long as there is one person who didn't get above median hours but got above median reviews (or vice versa), the median bonus will be above market and equal to the first bump. The entire bonus structure is incredibly stupid, and the fact that they spend all that time coming up with what literally every other firm is able to do with about 1/4 the effort is just embarrassing.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:18 pmAlmost everyone gets the "median" bonus, though, even if they just hit hours. Then there's increments on top of that for hours and adjective levels.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
Again, definitely choose it over KE, though.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Quoted truck anon. Kirkland is consistently some of the most unpleasant people to be across from on a deal (I don't think this is a controversial opinion). I would never want to act like them, and the idea of being in an instution full of people who act that way, sounds horrible. That, and all the other horror stories you hear about KE (hours, personalities, etc.). The only reason to pick KE is they will pay you more or you want to get a partner title. They aren't paying you more here (other than the bonuses which aren't that much more in the scheme of things), so I think the only other compelling reason to pick KE would be the partner title. I have no desire for a partner title, so all the negatives, with nothing attractive, means I would rather work probably anywhere else in big law.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:25 pmOP here.
$100k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:26 pmWould be curious to know the signing bonus offers. I'm considering a K&E offer.
Thank you. Two questions: What is the most typical exit route for Latham associates? Do you think making partner is a transparent process or is it more of a "black box"?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
I will add that Latham's interview timeline was much slower than other firms. Kirkland was very quick. I'm experiencing similar staffing issues at my current firm where I find myself stuck with junior tasks because I can't trust my stub; I think it's a global issue.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:46 pmFWIW, I'm a mid-level M&A associate at Latham and am running out of tolerance for how partners are staffing deals (and how they're seemingly not rushing to hire more folks to help out). On most of my recent deals it has been almost impossible to find 1st/2nd years to help out on substantive tasks/docs. Stubs are effectively useless, so all of the junior work effectively falls on mid-levels. It's absolutely unsustainable.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
On staffing, I heard the same thing from other Latham folks in the NY office regarding it being free market, so I guess it's almost a moot point to compare Kirkland and Latham on the staffing model. On the bonus system, agreed that Kirkland's comp is noticeably higher.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:51 pmI was a Latham junior in a non-NYC office. My impression of staffing was that it's effectively free market. While we do have a staffing system, most partners just reached out directly to people to get their deals staffed. It might be different in NYC, so YMMV.
On the bonus point, agreed it's not "above market" in the sense that Kirkland bonuses are. Maybe senior associates are getting monster bonuses, but we weren't seeing it at the junior/midlevel levels.
Care to explain the "run over by a truck" comment re Kirkland?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Progression is a pretty transparent process relative to other firms. They’ve shown us stats for how many people make it each year to counsel and income and equity partner (including how much those positions earn). Personally, the firm has been pretty transparent with me as to how they view me long term. I think exit ops are going to be the same as any other firm, folks go in house with clients (and Latham has a heavy PE roster) and I also get emailed about in house opportunities just about every day (I know I’m not special).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:25 pmOP here.
$100k.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:26 pmWould be curious to know the signing bonus offers. I'm considering a K&E offer.
Thank you. Two questions: What is the most typical exit route for Latham associates? Do you think making partner is a transparent process or is it more of a "black box"?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
I will add that Latham's interview timeline was much slower than other firms. Kirkland was very quick. I'm experiencing similar staffing issues at my current firm where I find myself stuck with junior tasks because I can't trust my stub; I think it's a global issue.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:46 pmFWIW, I'm a mid-level M&A associate at Latham and am running out of tolerance for how partners are staffing deals (and how they're seemingly not rushing to hire more folks to help out). On most of my recent deals it has been almost impossible to find 1st/2nd years to help out on substantive tasks/docs. Stubs are effectively useless, so all of the junior work effectively falls on mid-levels. It's absolutely unsustainable.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 12:37 pmHi there - Latham M&A senior associate here. I lateraled here a little while ago and have had a really positive experience with the group and the firm. On the comp point, I don’t think you’re likely to make meaningfully more at Kirkland, Latham pays above market bonuses to most associates. Happy to answer any questions you have.
On staffing, I heard the same thing from other Latham folks in the NY office regarding it being free market, so I guess it's almost a moot point to compare Kirkland and Latham on the staffing model. On the bonus system, agreed that Kirkland's comp is noticeably higher.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 5:51 pmI was a Latham junior in a non-NYC office. My impression of staffing was that it's effectively free market. While we do have a staffing system, most partners just reached out directly to people to get their deals staffed. It might be different in NYC, so YMMV.
On the bonus point, agreed it's not "above market" in the sense that Kirkland bonuses are. Maybe senior associates are getting monster bonuses, but we weren't seeing it at the junior/midlevel levels.
Care to explain the "run over by a truck" comment re Kirkland?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
I echo some of the staffing issues spoken of in this thread. I also echo the anti-Kirkland sentiment, sounds like an awful place and I just don’t think they train their associates to be very good lawyers.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
I can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
Edit: Also should've added that the lack of community thing (KE) makes sense. Their office has exploded in size - it's now their biggest office by a decent margin - and I can't imagine that has helped.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
Edit: Also should've added that the lack of community thing (KE) makes sense. Their office has exploded in size - it's now their biggest office by a decent margin - and I can't imagine that has helped.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
I tend to agree about generalizing huge firms based on personalities in one or two instances. I’ve run into plenty of good and bad personalities at both firms. The one thing that’s interesting is I do feel like the reputation in PE circles is Latham prioritizes capital markets/pubco work over PE and Kirkland prioritizes PE over capital markets, so if you’re on the PE side of M&A you may run into sponsors who take issue with that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:50 pmI can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
I think I've been across from Kirkland on 20-30 deals (quoted truck person). 90% of them were objectively much worse than average. Again, I don't think this is a controversial opinion. If anyone here has had lots of experience across from Kirkland and think they are about average in the industry or better than average, feel free to speak up.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:01 pmI tend to agree about generalizing huge firms based on personalities in one or two instances. I’ve run into plenty of good and bad personalities at both firms. The one thing that’s interesting is I do feel like the reputation in PE circles is Latham prioritizes capital markets/pubco work over PE and Kirkland prioritizes PE over capital markets, so if you’re on the PE side of M&A you may run into sponsors who take issue with that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:50 pmI can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Kirkland is notorious for having an A/B/C team. If you aren't across from them on their most important clients you may get their B/C/D teams which will likely be worse due at least in part to their size.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
genuine question - is this not the case everywhere? I can’t imagine a firm putting lower performing partners and associates on their most important clientsAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:47 pmKirkland is notorious for having an A/B/C team. If you aren't across from them on their most important clients you may get their B/C/D teams which will likely be worse due at least in part to their size.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Well no, it can’t really be a controversial opinion if it’s your personal experience and opinion. It’s just a huge firm and therefore not really fair to take your experience and generalize it to the entire group. This true for every huge firm, not just Kirkland. I also don’t want to be too confrontational here but if you’re talking dozens of people you didn’t get along with, it might be a you problem (or you just really don’t get along with a certain type of people?)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:43 pmI think I've been across from Kirkland on 20-30 deals (quoted truck person). 90% of them were objectively much worse than average. Again, I don't think this is a controversial opinion. If anyone here has had lots of experience across from Kirkland and think they are about average in the industry or better than average, feel free to speak up.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:01 pmI tend to agree about generalizing huge firms based on personalities in one or two instances. I’ve run into plenty of good and bad personalities at both firms. The one thing that’s interesting is I do feel like the reputation in PE circles is Latham prioritizes capital markets/pubco work over PE and Kirkland prioritizes PE over capital markets, so if you’re on the PE side of M&A you may run into sponsors who take issue with that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:50 pmI can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
The plus side at Kirkland is OP can find out who he/she enjoys working with and stick with those people. I would still go Latham if not PE focused, but it’s something to consider.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
I agree it could definitely be me. That's why if other people don't have the same issue, it would be great for them to chime in and say they think the people at KE are par for the course, or better or whatever. Pretty much everyone I talk to also hates Kirkland, which is why I don't think it's controversial, but it's only my experience and those I talk to. It could be my social circle and I are outliers.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:49 pmWell no, it can’t really be a controversial opinion if it’s your personal experience and opinion. It’s just a huge firm and therefore not really fair to take your experience and generalize it to the entire group. This true for every huge firm, not just Kirkland. I also don’t want to be too confrontational here but if you’re talking dozens of people you didn’t get along with, it might be a you problem (or you just really don’t get along with a certain type of people?)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:43 pmI think I've been across from Kirkland on 20-30 deals (quoted truck person). 90% of them were objectively much worse than average. Again, I don't think this is a controversial opinion. If anyone here has had lots of experience across from Kirkland and think they are about average in the industry or better than average, feel free to speak up.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:01 pmI tend to agree about generalizing huge firms based on personalities in one or two instances. I’ve run into plenty of good and bad personalities at both firms. The one thing that’s interesting is I do feel like the reputation in PE circles is Latham prioritizes capital markets/pubco work over PE and Kirkland prioritizes PE over capital markets, so if you’re on the PE side of M&A you may run into sponsors who take issue with that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:50 pmI can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
The plus side at Kirkland is OP can find out who he/she enjoys working with and stick with those people. I would still go Latham if not PE focused, but it’s something to consider.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
Is the idea of Kirkland being particularly combative really that hard to believe? If the partners want it that way, then it's going to flow down accordingly. It's not a criticism of the people either, outside of the real shotcallers. The Kirkland associates have no choice if the partner wants them to pick fights on everything.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 5:49 pmWell no, it can’t really be a controversial opinion if it’s your personal experience and opinion. It’s just a huge firm and therefore not really fair to take your experience and generalize it to the entire group. This true for every huge firm, not just Kirkland. I also don’t want to be too confrontational here but if you’re talking dozens of people you didn’t get along with, it might be a you problem (or you just really don’t get along with a certain type of people?)Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Dec 01, 2021 3:43 pmI think I've been across from Kirkland on 20-30 deals (quoted truck person). 90% of them were objectively much worse than average. Again, I don't think this is a controversial opinion. If anyone here has had lots of experience across from Kirkland and think they are about average in the industry or better than average, feel free to speak up.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 11:01 pmI tend to agree about generalizing huge firms based on personalities in one or two instances. I’ve run into plenty of good and bad personalities at both firms. The one thing that’s interesting is I do feel like the reputation in PE circles is Latham prioritizes capital markets/pubco work over PE and Kirkland prioritizes PE over capital markets, so if you’re on the PE side of M&A you may run into sponsors who take issue with that.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:50 pmI can't offer a ton of personal insight as I haven't actually worked at either in NY, but I would go to Latham.
The other guy saying he would rather get hit by a truck than work at Kirkland is just..dumb? Generalizing the personality of an office of 840+ attorneys and a firm of several thousand is illogical at best and at worst, lazy and in bad faith.
That being said, I've had a lot of interaction with attorneys at both of these offices, and I just generally enjoyed speaking with Latham associates a lot more - I felt like we perhaps had much more in common (generally, a more relaxed approach). All of the associates at Latham that I networked with (and probably 90% at Kirkland NY, actually) enjoyed working there.
At the end of the day they're both massive firms where you're going to work a lot - though, your group could make a difference, and maybe you care about a little extra pay. Good luck!
The plus side at Kirkland is OP can find out who he/she enjoys working with and stick with those people. I would still go Latham if not PE focused, but it’s something to consider.
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Re: NY M&A Lateral: Latham vs. Kirkland
LW associate - that is not how it works. Bump is for being above the minimum hours, not being above the median. As a reference point, I've seen multiple people in the 1.3x range for ~2400-2500 hours. Not good and not worth shooting for, but not so small as to be insulting (unless you are a 1st or 2nd year).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:27 pmThis is inaccurate and is explained every year at the stupid bonus meeting. The bonus starts at market. If you are above median in hours for your class there is a bump which gets graded up. If you are above median for your reviews there is a bump which gets graded up depending on adjective. If you are median or below in both, no bump. The reason the median is always above market is because as long as there is one person who didn't get above median hours but got above median reviews (or vice versa), the median bonus will be above market and equal to the first bump. The entire bonus structure is incredibly stupid, and the fact that they spend all that time coming up with what literally every other firm is able to do with about 1/4 the effort is just embarrassing.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:18 pmAlmost everyone gets the "median" bonus, though, even if they just hit hours. Then there's increments on top of that for hours and adjective levels.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Nov 30, 2021 6:12 pmLol at Latham paying above market for “most associates”. If your above median with hours or above median with reviews you get a bump. It’s not big, though and not where Kirkland is (it can be like 5k and makes you wonder why they bothered giving it to you for the 300-400 hours you were above bonus threshold). If you have median hours and median reviews, you get market.
That said I voted Latham. I’d rather get run over by a truck than work at Kirkland.
Again, definitely choose it over KE, though.
I'm not sure how they bump based on reviews - its more black box. A couple years ago though they showed the breakdown of hour thresholds to get each level of increased bonus.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
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