Booster mandates Forum

[nixy]

BMI is bullshit as a marker of health for everyone. It was developed in the 19th century for population level studies and its inventor said expressly that it was useless for addressing individual health. It was also developed based on white men, IIRC.

Some short criticism: https://www.npr.org/templates/story/sto ... =106268439

https://www.tonemadison.com/articles/th ... s-bullshit

Summary I like best is a podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/t ... 0530850955 (and associated links).

I don’t deny there’s a correlation between higher BMIs and various health issues, but there’s a lot of research about how people in the highest BMI categories face a shitload of social stigma, which in itself creates significant health issues, both on its own and also because that stigma makes it difficult for them to receive effective health care. It’s not actually clear at all that extra weight *causes* health problems directly.

I’m not going to discuss this further because it’s getting off topic, I just thought anon was being kind of snotty about the issue and then got a direct question, so answered.

[enibs]

Nah they can smd if they think I'll get semiannual shots so the boomers can be marginally more comfortable counting their millions.

I would say the same thing if my employment were contingent on the flu shot.

Some of your coworkers might be immunocompromised. I am a second-year and if I get covid I'll likely be put on a ventilator. This kind of attitude is awful. Sucks that new york coworkers are comfortable killing their office mates because they think it's inconvenient to be getting boosters. gross.

I'm the quoted anon

1) If you are immunocompromised and would die if you get covid, you should not be going into the office. Stay home until this shit blows over in the next couple years.

2) If you are at such serious a risk that you are relying on booster shots (which suggests you think vaccine protection can be waning), PLEASE stay home and value your life more than partners value $$$.

If you die because you love working under the fluorescent lights of an office building that is no one's fault but your own. Stay home.

Correction: stay the FUCK home. Wear two masks.

Dear Anonymous User,

I can’t even begin to express how depressing I find this post. You wish death on a colleague because you find it inconvenient to get a booster? Is there no level of selfishness that is a level too far in your world? Next time you want to express such a self-centered view, please own it with your screen name. It’s not like we’re going to know who you are irl, but at least we can know to ignore any other posts you choose to place on this board.

[ligma]

I'm in my 30s and based on my bmi am technically obese (I don't look like a ball of blubber, just beer belly ish). I'm a millennial, not a boomer. I didn't think of myself as a risk category. I got covid 5.5 months after my double dose vaccine, just before I'd have been eligible for the booster. My doctor immediately got me the antibody IV treatment and put me on a steroid. It still knocked me out for two weeks and weeks later I get fatigued. That was a mild case, of course, because I was never hospitalized or ventilated. Without the vaccine I'd probably have been in the ICU or worse. This thing sucks. It's really not a good time.

To repeat, I'm a healthy millennial with no prior conditions, just not skinny and not 25 anymore. Get your vaccines, get your boosters, and stop whining about a little shot. Oh and get your flu shot too.

Okay.
1. Lose weight.
2. That the vaccine helped you is not an argument for mass mandates, when the data has repeatedly confirmed that vaccines don’t stop transmission.

[ligma]

Nah they can smd if they think I'll get semiannual shots so the boomers can be marginally more comfortable counting their millions.

I would say the same thing if my employment were contingent on the flu shot.

Some of your coworkers might be immunocompromised. I am a second-year and if I get covid I'll likely be put on a ventilator. This kind of attitude is awful. Sucks that new york coworkers are comfortable killing their office mates because they think it's inconvenient to be getting boosters. gross.

I'm the quoted anon

1) If you are immunocompromised and would die if you get covid, you should not be going into the office. Stay home until this shit blows over in the next couple years.

2) If you are at such serious a risk that you are relying on booster shots (which suggests you think vaccine protection can be waning), PLEASE stay home and value your life more than partners value $$$.

If you die because you love working under the fluorescent lights of an office building that is no one's fault but your own. Stay home.

Correction: stay the FUCK home. Wear two masks.

Dear Anonymous User,

I can’t even begin to express how depressing I find this post. You wish death on a colleague because you find it inconvenient to get a booster? Is there no level of selfishness that is a level too far in your world? Next time you want to express such a self-centered view, please own it with your screen name. It’s not like we’re going to know who you are irl, but at least we can know to ignore any other posts you choose to place on this board.

Don’t be disingenuous. Anon never wished death on nls. Funny that we can’t talk about covid policy without Covid Hawks resorting to feigning outrage and pearl clutching.

It sucks that nls may be immunocompromised to the point that it could cause death. Sorry to hear that. But if that’s the case, these vaccines are not enough security to be reentering the public space, whether you’d like to believe that or not. Efficacy fades rapidly. It’s also not the entire world’s responsibility to conform to the needs of a very small portion of the population—particularly when there are very high costs to society in doing so. These Lockdown and public health measures have extremely high costs, and it’s time people start recognizing this.

[Anonymous User]

To get back on topic: boosters will definitely become mandatory. Anyone who didn't realize this was kidding themselves. It's the same issue with most things: when you give a finger, they'll take the entire hand. Look back two years from now and ask yourself if you think the government could have gotten away with all the stuff they pulled. "Of course not!" But if you're being bludgeoned over the head with fear and more and more restrictions come in it's easy to say "Sure, I'll do this then! Guess that makes some sense, but that's it!" Only issue is that you've been saying this for two years now.

So yeah, boosters will become a thing. The vaccines won't work well without the boosters, so if you took the vaccine, you should also take the booster. Period. You shouldn't have taken the vaccine in the first place if this was the hill you wanted to die on.

That being said: just go to Texas or Florida or something if it's an issue.

[nixy]

2. That the vaccine helped you is not an argument for mass mandates, when the data has repeatedly confirmed that vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Vaccines do limit transmission, and they do prevent people - all people - from hospitalization and dying. If you want to roll the dice with dying of covid that’s fine, but your employer doesn’t have to support that decision.

The reference to the impact of lockdowns doesn’t make much sense when the whole point of vaccination is to eliminate the need for lockdowns.

[Buglaw]

Nah they can smd if they think I'll get semiannual shots so the boomers can be marginally more comfortable counting their millions.

I would say the same thing if my employment were contingent on the flu shot.

Some of your coworkers might be immunocompromised. I am a second-year and if I get covid I'll likely be put on a ventilator. This kind of attitude is awful. Sucks that new york coworkers are comfortable killing their office mates because they think it's inconvenient to be getting boosters. gross.

I hear what you're saying (and I got my booster and have no objections to vaccine mandates) but I think you're being a bit dramatic. So far as I know, if you are fully vaccinnated your odds of being put on a ventilator (for any pre-existing condition) is still well below 10% chance. I'd like to seem some stats that you are "likely" to be put on a ventilator.

[Anonymous User]

I'm in my 30s and based on my bmi am technically obese (I don't look like a ball of blubber, just beer belly ish). I'm a millennial, not a boomer. I didn't think of myself as a risk category. I got covid 5.5 months after my double dose vaccine, just before I'd have been eligible for the booster. My doctor immediately got me the antibody IV treatment and put me on a steroid. It still knocked me out for two weeks and weeks later I get fatigued. That was a mild case, of course, because I was never hospitalized or ventilated. Without the vaccine I'd probably have been in the ICU or worse. This thing sucks. It's really not a good time.

To repeat, I'm a healthy millennial with no prior conditions, just not skinny and not 25 anymore. Get your vaccines, get your boosters, and stop whining about a little shot. Oh and get your flu shot too.

Pro tip: obesity is a prior condition. Lose some weight

Pro tip: BMI is bullshit and this post didn't need to be anon.

Not your quoted anon, but trying to understand your post. Are you saying that the concept of BMI is bullshit generally? Are you saying the idea that high BMI can indicate a person is unhealthy (i.e., bmi is just a product of our genetics and something out of our control) is bullshit? Are you saying that there is no correlation between being overweight and severity of covid?

TBF BMI can be kinda bs for some people, especially people who are tall and/or jacked. Like 6'4 210 pounds is 'overweight' by BMI, and 6'4 160 is 'healthy', which is silly.

Unless you're football player level jacked though, anyone 'obese' by BMI (not just overweight) almost certainly should lose a few pounds.

Just to be clear, the examples you gave aren't silly. Our ideas of what is "healthy": or "normal" are just absurd in modern times. Look at pictures of groups of people from the 60-70s. They all look super skinny compared to our understanding of what is "normal" today. People have exploded in size and what is "normal" or a "dad bod" today was fat form almost all of human history. We are all just much heavier now and it is not "healthy" or "normal". So, 6'4 160 is a totally fine weight to be (as is 6'4 180 or 190). 210 pounds is just a lot of weight for a human body to carry around. If you are strength training and have a good amount of muscle, likely fine, but if your an office worker who eats out all the time and lounges in an office chair, it's not healthy.

Agree about being jacked, If you are squatting 400-500 lbs, sure BMI may not work great for you, but you are also in the top .5% of people with muscle. Saying something is silly because it is not applicable to 1-2% of the population, but is applicable to 98% of the population is dumb. BMI is a great measure, and obesity killed about as many people as Covid last year in this country and is one of, if not the prime reasons our mortality rates are not going up. It also causes poor mental health, lower quality of life and all kinds of diseases. The defend obesity movement as a lifestyle choice is a strange one. And saying your healthy other than your obesity, is like saying your healthy other than your diabetes.

[tsk222]

I'm in my 30s and based on my bmi am technically obese (I don't look like a ball of blubber, just beer belly ish). I'm a millennial, not a boomer. I didn't think of myself as a risk category. I got covid 5.5 months after my double dose vaccine, just before I'd have been eligible for the booster. My doctor immediately got me the antibody IV treatment and put me on a steroid. It still knocked me out for two weeks and weeks later I get fatigued. That was a mild case, of course, because I was never hospitalized or ventilated. Without the vaccine I'd probably have been in the ICU or worse. This thing sucks. It's really not a good time.

To repeat, I'm a healthy millennial with no prior conditions, just not skinny and not 25 anymore. Get your vaccines, get your boosters, and stop whining about a little shot. Oh and get your flu shot too.

Pro tip: obesity is a prior condition. Lose some weight

Pro tip: BMI is bullshit and this post didn't need to be anon.

Not your quoted anon, but trying to understand your post. Are you saying that the concept of BMI is bullshit generally? Are you saying the idea that high BMI can indicate a person is unhealthy (i.e., bmi is just a product of our genetics and something out of our control) is bullshit? Are you saying that there is no correlation between being overweight and severity of covid?

TBF BMI can be kinda bs for some people, especially people who are tall and/or jacked. Like 6'4 210 pounds is 'overweight' by BMI, and 6'4 160 is 'healthy', which is silly.

Unless you're football player level jacked though, anyone 'obese' by BMI (not just overweight) almost certainly should lose a few pounds.

Just to be clear, the examples you gave aren't silly. Our ideas of what is "healthy": or "normal" are just absurd in modern times. Look at pictures of groups of people from the 60-70s. They all look super skinny compared to our understanding of what is "normal" today. People have exploded in size and what is "normal" or a "dad bod" today was fat form almost all of human history. We are all just much heavier now and it is not "healthy" or "normal". So, 6'4 160 is a totally fine weight to be (as is 6'4 180 or 190). 210 pounds is just a lot of weight for a human body to carry around. If you are strength training and have a good amount of muscle, likely fine, but if your an office worker who eats out all the time and lounges in an office chair, it's not healthy.

Agree about being jacked, If you are squatting 400-500 lbs, sure BMI may not work great for you, but you are also in the top .5% of people with muscle. Saying something is silly because it is not applicable to 1-2% of the population, but is applicable to 98% of the population is dumb. BMI is a great measure, and obesity killed about as many people as Covid last year in this country and is one of, if not the prime reasons our mortality rates are not going up. It also causes poor mental health, lower quality of life and all kinds of diseases. The defend obesity movement as a lifestyle choice is a strange one. And saying your healthy other than your obesity, is like saying your healthy other than your diabetes.

For the first paragraph, I mean I guess so, but I'm like 5'10 150 and always feel like I should, if anything, gain a few pounds. If I was 6 inches taller and only 10 pounds heavier I'd be preposterously skinny. but yea, for most people if your BMI is over 25 and especially if it's over 30, then you're an unhealthy weight and should make lifestyle changes.

Couldn't agree more on the second paragraph.

[nixy]

Just to be clear, the examples you gave aren't silly. Our ideas of what is "healthy": or "normal" are just absurd in modern times. Look at pictures of groups of people from the 60-70s. They all look super skinny compared to our understanding of what is "normal" today. People have exploded in size and what is "normal" or a "dad bod" today was fat form almost all of human history. We are all just much heavier now and it is not "healthy" or "normal". So, 6'4 160 is a totally fine weight to be (as is 6'4 180 or 190). 210 pounds is just a lot of weight for a human body to carry around. If you are strength training and have a good amount of muscle, likely fine, but if your an office worker who eats out all the time and lounges in an office chair, it's not healthy.

Agree about being jacked, If you are squatting 400-500 lbs, sure BMI may not work great for you, but you are also in the top .5% of people with muscle. Saying something is silly because it is not applicable to 1-2% of the population, but is applicable to 98% of the population is dumb. BMI is a great measure, and obesity killed about as many people as Covid last year in this country and is one of, if not the prime reasons our mortality rates are not going up. It also causes poor mental health, lower quality of life and all kinds of diseases. The defend obesity movement as a lifestyle choice is a strange one. And saying your healthy other than your obesity, is like saying your healthy other than your diabetes.

This just isn’t accurate. See my previous post about why BMI is bullshit, brave anon. There is way more to health than BMI and without knowing anything else about someone’s actual medical evaluations, you can’t assume anything about their health based on BMI.

[Anonymous User]

2. That the vaccine helped you is not an argument for mass mandates, when the data has repeatedly confirmed that vaccines don’t stop transmission.

Vaccines do limit transmission, and they do prevent people - all people - from hospitalization and dying. If you want to roll the dice with dying of covid that’s fine, but your employer doesn’t have to support that decision.

The reference to the impact of lockdowns doesn’t make much sense when the whole point of vaccination is to eliminate the need for lockdowns.

If you think vaccination protects "all people" from hospitalization and death you are tragically misinformed.

And if you think these vaccines don't have risks that are worth considering, you're wrong
e.g., https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161 ... 10712?s=09

Not anti-vaccination but anti-mandate. I know two people who suffered severe myocarditis after their Moderna shots. I also have a relative who lives/works in NYC who can't take the vaccine due to a heart condition. It's bullshit that he can't enter most businesses due to mandates.

I digress. Anyway, yeah—I'll "roll the dice" on dying from covid, considering I've had it, and that the proverbial dice have 998 sides that say I live and 2 that say I die

Accidental anon: ligma

[nixy]

Sure, let me clarify. The vaccine protects everyone who can mount an immune response. Some people can’t, so you’re right, the vaccine doesn’t protect them.

You seem pretty lucky, stats wise, because the myocarditis side effect is extremely rare and from the information I’ve found, the risks from getting covid outweigh the risks of getting that side effect. In fact, the only medical contraindication for the vaccine is being allergic to one of its components.

Finally, all mandates have medical exemptions. So if your relative’s doctors believe they can’t safely take the vaccine, they should be exempt from having to do so.

[Buglaw]

Just to be clear, the examples you gave aren't silly. Our ideas of what is "healthy": or "normal" are just absurd in modern times. Look at pictures of groups of people from the 60-70s. They all look super skinny compared to our understanding of what is "normal" today. People have exploded in size and what is "normal" or a "dad bod" today was fat form almost all of human history. We are all just much heavier now and it is not "healthy" or "normal". So, 6'4 160 is a totally fine weight to be (as is 6'4 180 or 190). 210 pounds is just a lot of weight for a human body to carry around. If you are strength training and have a good amount of muscle, likely fine, but if your an office worker who eats out all the time and lounges in an office chair, it's not healthy.

Agree about being jacked, If you are squatting 400-500 lbs, sure BMI may not work great for you, but you are also in the top .5% of people with muscle. Saying something is silly because it is not applicable to 1-2% of the population, but is applicable to 98% of the population is dumb. BMI is a great measure, and obesity killed about as many people as Covid last year in this country and is one of, if not the prime reasons our mortality rates are not going up. It also causes poor mental health, lower quality of life and all kinds of diseases. The defend obesity movement as a lifestyle choice is a strange one. And saying your healthy other than your obesity, is like saying your healthy other than your diabetes.

This just isn’t accurate. See my previous post about why BMI is bullshit, brave anon. There is way more to health than BMI and without knowing anything else about someone’s actual medical evaluations, you can’t assume anything about their health based on BMI.

This is false. And I didn’t mean to be anonymous. The idea that someone having a BMI of 40 tells you nothing or that the stigma of being obese is worse for your health than being obese is rodoculous. You can’t assume someone with a BMI of 30 is more likely to have health problems than someone with a BMI of 22? That’s a dumb position and not supported by the science.

Here's an article on BMI from Harvard Health and a bunch of other sources on the health impacts of obesity. Your position defies common sense and the science.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how ... 1603309339

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-pr ... h-effects/

https://easo.org/media-portal/statistics/

[Buglaw]

I'm in my 30s and based on my bmi am technically obese (I don't look like a ball of blubber, just beer belly ish). I'm a millennial, not a boomer. I didn't think of myself as a risk category. I got covid 5.5 months after my double dose vaccine, just before I'd have been eligible for the booster. My doctor immediately got me the antibody IV treatment and put me on a steroid. It still knocked me out for two weeks and weeks later I get fatigued. That was a mild case, of course, because I was never hospitalized or ventilated. Without the vaccine I'd probably have been in the ICU or worse. This thing sucks. It's really not a good time.

To repeat, I'm a healthy millennial with no prior conditions, just not skinny and not 25 anymore. Get your vaccines, get your boosters, and stop whining about a little shot. Oh and get your flu shot too.

Pro tip: obesity is a prior condition. Lose some weight

Pro tip: BMI is bullshit and this post didn't need to be anon.

Not your quoted anon, but trying to understand your post. Are you saying that the concept of BMI is bullshit generally? Are you saying the idea that high BMI can indicate a person is unhealthy (i.e., bmi is just a product of our genetics and something out of our control) is bullshit? Are you saying that there is no correlation between being overweight and severity of covid?

TBF BMI can be kinda bs for some people, especially people who are tall and/or jacked. Like 6'4 210 pounds is 'overweight' by BMI, and 6'4 160 is 'healthy', which is silly.

Unless you're football player level jacked though, anyone 'obese' by BMI (not just overweight) almost certainly should lose a few pounds.

Just to be clear, the examples you gave aren't silly. Our ideas of what is "healthy": or "normal" are just absurd in modern times. Look at pictures of groups of people from the 60-70s. They all look super skinny compared to our understanding of what is "normal" today. People have exploded in size and what is "normal" or a "dad bod" today was fat form almost all of human history. We are all just much heavier now and it is not "healthy" or "normal". So, 6'4 160 is a totally fine weight to be (as is 6'4 180 or 190). 210 pounds is just a lot of weight for a human body to carry around. If you are strength training and have a good amount of muscle, likely fine, but if your an office worker who eats out all the time and lounges in an office chair, it's not healthy.

Agree about being jacked, If you are squatting 400-500 lbs, sure BMI may not work great for you, but you are also in the top .5% of people with muscle. Saying something is silly because it is not applicable to 1-2% of the population, but is applicable to 98% of the population is dumb. BMI is a great measure, and obesity killed about as many people as Covid last year in this country and is one of, if not the prime reasons our mortality rates are not going up. It also causes poor mental health, lower quality of life and all kinds of diseases. The defend obesity movement as a lifestyle choice is a strange one. And saying your healthy other than your obesity, is like saying your healthy other than your diabetes.

For the first paragraph, I mean I guess so, but I'm like 5'10 150 and always feel like I should, if anything, gain a few pounds. If I was 6 inches taller and only 10 pounds heavier I'd be preposterously skinny. but yea, for most people if your BMI is over 25 and especially if it's over 30, then you're an unhealthy weight and should make lifestyle changes.

Couldn't agree more on the second paragraph.

I don't disagree with your point on the first paragraph. You would not be aesthetically pleasing, but it's not an unhealthy weight, per se, for most people. I'm not saying all 6'4 people should weigh that (or that someone of that weight shouldn't try to gain weight) simply that it's not unhealthy (i.e. is not associated with increased health risks that we are aware of) for most folks at 6'4 to weigh that.

[thisismytlsuername]

And if you think these vaccines don't have risks that are worth considering, you're wrong
e.g., https://www.ahajournals.org/doi/10.1161 ... 10712?s=09

Accidental anon: ligma

Oh hell yeah. Love the link to a non-peer reviewed study with an egregious typo in the very first sentence written by one dude based on a test that no one uses. Inject that far-right-wing shit right into my veins baby.

[cisscum]

Sure, let me clarify. The vaccine protects everyone who can mount an immune response. Some people can’t, so you’re right, the vaccine doesn’t protect them.

You seem pretty lucky, stats wise, because the myocarditis side effect is extremely rare and from the information I’ve found, the risks from getting covid outweigh the risks of getting that side effect. In fact, the only medical contraindication for the vaccine is being allergic to one of its components.

Finally, all mandates have medical exemptions. So if your relative’s doctors believe they can’t safely take the vaccine, they should be exempt from having to do so.

"From the information I've found" lmao

Look at this document monkey larping as a medical expert

[nixy]

Lol, “information” means shit I’ve googled, like everyone else has, not like I’ve personally conducted experiments. Pretty sure it was the CDC saying that the risks from getting COVID outweigh the risk of the myocarditis side effect. If you’re suspicious of the CDC that’s your prerogative but I’m not sure you can criticize my information unless you’re conducting your own deep dive into medical scholarship with an advanced degree in medicine or something.

[nixy]

This is false. And I didn’t mean to be anonymous. The idea that someone having a BMI of 40 tells you nothing or that the stigma of being obese is worse for your health than being obese is rodoculous. You can’t assume someone with a BMI of 30 is more likely to have health problems than someone with a BMI of 22? That’s a dumb position and not supported by the science.

Here's an article on BMI from Harvard Health and a bunch of other sources on the health impacts of obesity. Your position defies common sense and the science.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how ... 1603309339

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-pr ... h-effects/

https://easo.org/media-portal/statistics/

The history of the BMI is widely known and there’s a great deal of evidence to contest the fact that the correlation of high BMI with medical problems means that the weight itself causes those problems. The Maintenance Phase podcast, Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon, and Anti-Diet by Christy Harrison are some good introductions to the science on the issue. At the very least, the issue is way more complex than the links you offer suggest. Read up on it.

[Anonymous User]

My main issues with BMI are
1. It's very inaccurate for many people, eg tall people and bone dense, doesn't take into account how broad you are etc. This isn't an argument that someone 6'4 should weigh 250, just that the measurement of bmi simply isn't measuring the same thing for everyone, and given that it's used for everyone equally, that's a problem for a measurement.

2. It very rapidly goes to obese. Yes ofc a bmi of 40 is an issue, but 40 and 30 should not both be labeled "obese". Bmi of 30 is not "obese" and calling it that doesn't give us useful information. It's sort of analogous to how doctors treat smoking and vaping, you need to recognize relative risk. "You should lose a few pounds" v "you're gonna die at 60".

3. It assumes extreme skinniness as the baseline. I don't think people in the 50s were actually more healthy than we are today! We exercise much more today, and we eat healthier even if we don't eat perfectly (just look up a 50s cookbook). There's plenty of ppl today in excellent health who are labeled as at least overweight, maybe not obese OK. It's an out of date measurement.

[Anonymous User]

Not just about boomers and people who are themselves immuno-compromised. I have three kids not yet eligible for the vaccine. I got my booster and wear a mask when walking around in the office (even though the vast majority of people don't). One great thing that came out of the early days of the pandemic was the common sense that we take precautions not (only) to protect ourselves, but to protect others. It is sad how quickly that sentiment evaporated.

[tsk222]

My main issues with BMI are
1. It's very inaccurate for many people, eg tall people and bone dense, doesn't take into account how broad you are etc. This isn't an argument that someone 6'4 should weigh 250, just that the measurement of bmi simply isn't measuring the same thing for everyone, and given that it's used for everyone equally, that's a problem for a measurement.

2. It very rapidly goes to obese. Yes ofc a bmi of 40 is an issue, but 40 and 30 should not both be labeled "obese". Bmi of 30 is not "obese" and calling it that doesn't give us useful information. It's sort of analogous to how doctors treat smoking and vaping, you need to recognize relative risk. "You should lose a few pounds" v "you're gonna die at 60".

3. It assumes extreme skinniness as the baseline. I don't think people in the 50s were actually more healthy than we are today! We exercise much more today, and we eat healthier even if we don't eat perfectly (just look up a 50s cookbook). There's plenty of ppl today in excellent health who are labeled as at least overweight, maybe not obese OK. It's an out of date measurement.

40+ is considered "morbidly obese", it's its own category.

[Buglaw]

This is false. And I didn’t mean to be anonymous. The idea that someone having a BMI of 40 tells you nothing or that the stigma of being obese is worse for your health than being obese is rodoculous. You can’t assume someone with a BMI of 30 is more likely to have health problems than someone with a BMI of 22? That’s a dumb position and not supported by the science.

Here's an article on BMI from Harvard Health and a bunch of other sources on the health impacts of obesity. Your position defies common sense and the science.

https://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/how ... 1603309339

https://www.cdc.gov/healthyweight/effects/index.html

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/obesity-pr ... h-effects/

https://easo.org/media-portal/statistics/

The history of the BMI is widely known and there’s a great deal of evidence to contest the fact that the correlation of high BMI with medical problems means that the weight itself causes those problems. The Maintenance Phase podcast, Health at Every Size by Linda Bacon, and Anti-Diet by Christy Harrison are some good introductions to the science on the issue. At the very least, the issue is way more complex than the links you offer suggest. Read up on it.

It's too bad that Harvard, the CDC and the WHO just aren't up on the great science that the healthy at every size folks are. It must just be too "complex" for them and thus they give their poor recommendations. Thanks for bringing that to my attention. It will be great that I'll be able to learn more from someone who "taught at City College of San Francisco, in the Health Education, Psychology, Women’s Studies, and Biology Departments. A professor and researcher, for almost two decades Dr. Bacon has taught courses in social justice, health, weight and nutrition". This guy seems much more reliable than Harvard, CDC or WHO.

[Buglaw]

Lol, “information” means shit I’ve googled, like everyone else has, not like I’ve personally conducted experiments. Pretty sure it was the CDC saying that the risks from getting COVID outweigh the risk of the myocarditis side effect. If you’re suspicious of the CDC that’s your prerogative but I’m not sure you can criticize my information unless you’re conducting your own deep dive into medical scholarship with an advanced degree in medicine or something.

So the CDC is a good authority for the disease of Covid, but not obesity?

[Buglaw]

My main issues with BMI are
1. It's very inaccurate for many people, eg tall people and bone dense, doesn't take into account how broad you are etc. This isn't an argument that someone 6'4 should weigh 250, just that the measurement of bmi simply isn't measuring the same thing for everyone, and given that it's used for everyone equally, that's a problem for a measurement.

2. It very rapidly goes to obese. Yes ofc a bmi of 40 is an issue, but 40 and 30 should not both be labeled "obese". Bmi of 30 is not "obese" and calling it that doesn't give us useful information. It's sort of analogous to how doctors treat smoking and vaping, you need to recognize relative risk. "You should lose a few pounds" v "you're gonna die at 60".

3. It assumes extreme skinniness as the baseline. I don't think people in the 50s were actually more healthy than we are today! We exercise much more today, and we eat healthier even if we don't eat perfectly (just look up a 50s cookbook). There's plenty of ppl today in excellent health who are labeled as at least overweight, maybe not obese OK. It's an out of date measurement.

40+ is considered "morbidly obese", it's its own category.

In addition, this guy's other points are dumb.

1. Dude is literally making a big bone argument. I feel like I'm watching an episode of south park (I'm not fat, I'm just big boned). BMI isn't perfect, but it's generally good for most people, its easy to calculate and it's very predictive. It's simplicity and predictive values are one of its virtues. There are almost certainly more accurate measurements possible, but they wouldn't be as easy to calculate and administer on a large scale and would likely be too complex. If your point is that for some people the range should go up to 26 or 27, that's likely true, but besides the point.

2.It's like saying you don't like the messaging that smoking is unhealthy (not vaping those are differences of type) because it doesn't take into account the amount you smoke. It equates smoking 3 cigarettes a day with 2 packs a day and thus we shouldn't call both people smokers as it unfairly impugns the 3 cigarette a day smokers. It's a dumb point. Yes, smoking two packs a day is worse than 3 cigarettes a day, but both are smokers and the fact that it isn't the perfectly precise messaging doesn't mean smoking is bad is a poor message. Smoking 3 cigarettes a day is bad. Smoking two packs a day is worse. But both are smokers and smoking is bad.

Having a BMI of 30 is bad. Having a BMI of 40 is worse. But having a BMI of 30 is being obese and being obese is bad. The message is valid even though it doesn't have 50 different gradients of specificity.

Point 3 is dumb. There is little reason to believe the average person is eating healthier today. Sure, there is certainly more opportunity for healthy eating today, but all the evidence is that people's diets are worse than they use to be. People aren't getting obese off of a diet of fruits, vegetables, whole grains and lean proteins. The science bears this out.

[legalpotato]

Not just about boomers and people who are themselves immuno-compromised. I have three kids not yet eligible for the vaccine. I got my booster and wear a mask when walking around in the office (even though the vast majority of people don't). One great thing that came out of the early days of the pandemic was the common sense that we take precautions not (only) to protect ourselves, but to protect others. It is sad how quickly that sentiment evaporated.

Covid or no covid, it was nice how ppl generally avoided going out when they were sick last year. Now I hear ppl coughing all the time. I assume they don't have covid (some probably do, just giving them the benefit of the doubt), but still would be nice if ppl had the common decency to avoid unnecessarily going out when sick, even if just the cold.