Kirkland Signing Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

It’s strange to me how much people have to talk about and disparage Kirkland. Totally cool if you don’t want to work there or don’t like some people who work there, but they’re paying people lots of money and offering sweet perks. This has positive effects that ripple across the associate labor market and benefit many of us

I think the amount of "Kirkland cope" that goes on in here fuels the fire. Kirkland has destroyed its brand. Once the M&A boom is over, god help all of us.

I think this is mostly a result of the neurotic, obsessively competitive people who frequent this message board. It's not really that much different from a 0L arguing/convincing themselves that NYU is a meaningfully better school than Penn or Michigan is better than Duke or something. This board is full of people who want to go to sleep at night thinking that no one is doing this biglaw thing better than them - that they can credibly think of themselves in the top group of biglawyers, whatever that means. (And this is in no way specific to Kirkland criticism but that's just the type that sees the light of day most often.)

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

the cravath associate literally believes that because they’re paying people a shit load of money to jump over it correlates with lower prestige and thus weakness.

buddy, in what world is a business offering people $200k+ to join a sign of weakness?

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

the cravath associate literally believes that because they’re paying people a shit load of money to jump over it correlates with lower prestige and thus weakness.

buddy, in what world is a business offering people $200k+ to join a sign of weakness?

He thinks his prestige will pay the bills.

[Joachim2017]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

the cravath associate literally believes that because they’re paying people a shit load of money to jump over it correlates with lower prestige and thus weakness.

buddy, in what world is a business offering people $200k+ to join a sign of weakness?

He thinks his prestige will pay the bills.

The thing is, he's just as mistaken on the prestige point, too! No one thinks Cravath is that much more prestigious than Kirland. Cravath just does not have that cache anymore. This guy is living in the past.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath is literally calling up former associates and begging them to work remotely in non-partner eligible positions. Such prestige. Much wow. Unless you work at WLRK, all the V10s are interchangeable in terms of lawyer prefffftige. None of it has preffffftige to non-lawyers, so you shouldn't even care in the first place.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

the cravath associate literally believes that because they’re paying people a shit load of money to jump over it correlates with lower prestige and thus weakness.

buddy, in what world is a business offering people $200k+ to join a sign of weakness?

He thinks his prestige will pay the bills.

The thing is, he's just as mistaken on the prestige point, too! No one thinks Cravath is that much more prestigious than Kirland. Cravath just does not have that cache anymore. This guy is living in the past.

NYC corp isn't prestigious, period (outside of Wachtell obvs). Students and grads at truly elite boutiques and other selective groups must be pissing themselves reading this thread.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

I recently left a v15 firm that is hemorrhaging associates, and they refused to raise the signing bonus or associate referral bonus. When asked by the associate committee why they aren't keeping up with market comp and benefits, the NY managing partner said something along the lines of "we want to attract talent that appreciates the intangible benefits that [firm] provides". Several members of the associate committee left in the months following that meeting.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

What a terrible take. K&E revenue is at extraordinary levels because of unprecedented client demand for their services, and to meet that demand they are throwing sacks of cash at associates, which doesn't even start to dent their PPP, which is absurdly high for a firm of their size. In what industry would anybody interpret this as a sign of weakness?

I recently left a v15 firm that is hemorrhaging associates, and they refused to raise the signing bonus or associate referral bonus. When asked by the associate committee why they aren't keeping up with market comp and benefits, the NY managing partner said something along the lines of "we want to attract talent that appreciates the intangible benefits that [firm] provides". Several members of the associate committee left in the months following that meeting.

Prestigious

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

For what it's worth, next OCI, when someone asks "Cravath vs. [X]", I'm going to link to this post, really just speaks for itself.

[Anonymous User]

A senior associate friend received a $400k signing bonus in a newly opened K&E office. They started at $200k and he negotiated to $400k without a problem.

This senior associate could have made nearly a million dollars this year then, if the 2020 year end bonus paid in January and they got the entire 2021 special bonus from their old firm (365k base + 64k special bonus + 90k 2020 year end bonus + 400k Kirkland signing bonus = $919k). Not too shabby.

To be clear, was the $400k JUST the signing bonus? I have heard $350k from a friend who then clarified that that was the aggregate amount being offered at signing (i.e., signing, covid bonus, anticipated EOY bonus).

[Anonymous User]

A senior associate friend received a $400k signing bonus in a newly opened K&E office. They started at $200k and he negotiated to $400k without a problem.

There's no way this was in SLC. That market is signing people for only $70k because everyone's desperate to get paid more than the local starting salary of $135k. Easy talent grab for them in that market so they didn't need to pay as much.

[Anonymous User]

A senior associate friend received a $400k signing bonus in a newly opened K&E office. They started at $200k and he negotiated to $400k without a problem.

There's no way this was in SLC. That market is signing people for only $70k because everyone's desperate to get paid more than the local starting salary of $135k. Easy talent grab for them in that market so they didn't need to pay as much.

Probably is in Austin.

[Anonymous User]

A senior associate friend received a $400k signing bonus in a newly opened K&E office. They started at $200k and he negotiated to $400k without a problem.

There's no way this was in SLC. That market is signing people for only $70k because everyone's desperate to get paid more than the local starting salary of $135k. Easy talent grab for them in that market so they didn't need to pay as much.

Probably is in Austin.

Good call. Sorry I totally forgot about that office opening.

[Anonymous User]

Reminder: Cravath just tried to fuck this year’s associates by setting a bonus scale only 5-15% higher than last year’s base (and appreciably less than last year’s all-in).

K&E will pay whatever market ends up being plus at least another 20%, and that’s for your bog standard 2,000 hours with class associate.

More food for thought for future associates contemplating whether to go to Cravath for the elusive “prestige” benefit (read: 10 years out of date reputation of a firm struggling to stay competitive in 2021).

[Anonymous User]

Reminder: Cravath just tried to fuck this year’s associates by setting a bonus scale only 5-15% higher than last year’s base (and appreciably less than last year’s all-in).

K&E will pay whatever market ends up being plus at least another 20%, and that’s for your bog standard 2,000 hours with class associate.

More food for thought for future associates contemplating whether to go to Cravath for the elusive “prestige” benefit (read: 10 years out of date reputation of a firm struggling to stay competitive in 2021).

Seems like the best financial move is to pick another firm to start, and then lateral to KE as a 3rd or 4th year associate. You'll most likely get more in signing bonus than you lost in EOY bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Seems like the best financial move is to pick another firm to start, and then lateral to KE as a 3rd or 4th year associate. You'll most likely get more in signing bonus than you lost in EOY bonus.

Are any K&E associates getting retention bonuses? Otherwise agree, K&E house-grown associates are getting screwed compared to going to a relatively more humane firm before coming over to collect $$$.

[Anonymous User]

Reminder: Cravath just tried to fuck this year’s associates by setting a bonus scale only 5-15% higher than last year’s base (and appreciably less than last year’s all-in).

K&E will pay whatever market ends up being plus at least another 20%, and that’s for your bog standard 2,000 hours with class associate.

More food for thought for future associates contemplating whether to go to Cravath for the elusive “prestige” benefit (read: 10 years out of date reputation of a firm struggling to stay competitive in 2021).

Seems like the best financial move is to pick another firm to start, and then lateral to KE as a 3rd or 4th year associate. You'll most likely get more in signing bonus than you lost in EOY bonus.

There’s a lot of uncertainty to that path. There’s no guarantee this lateral environment will continue and you’re forcing yourself to go through the ringer twice. Seems to me the best path is to start at the V10 that pays more than any other this side of Wachtell and to stay there for as long as you’re going to subject yourself to biglaw acknowledging you’ll be bereft of the wafts of 1990s prestige emanating off Cravath’s corpse lol. The 1.5xs, 1.2xs, 1.4xs etc. start to add up especially as you get more senior.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

Except that K&E has hired 11 laterals (not counting equity partners) into the NY office's M&A group from V5s in the last two years alone, including 3 from WLRK and 3 from Cravath.

The bolded part of your statement is absolutely hilarious. You need to come back to reality - nobody thinks you and your buds are cool.

[Anonymous User]

Reminder: Cravath just tried to fuck this year’s associates by setting a bonus scale only 5-15% higher than last year’s base (and appreciably less than last year’s all-in).

K&E will pay whatever market ends up being plus at least another 20%, and that’s for your bog standard 2,000 hours with class associate.

More food for thought for future associates contemplating whether to go to Cravath for the elusive “prestige” benefit (read: 10 years out of date reputation of a firm struggling to stay competitive in 2021).

Seems like the best financial move is to pick another firm to start, and then lateral to KE as a 3rd or 4th year associate. You'll most likely get more in signing bonus than you lost in EOY bonus.

There’s a lot of uncertainty to that path. There’s no guarantee this lateral environment will continue and you’re forcing yourself to go through the ringer twice. Seems to me the best path is to start at the V10 that pays more than any other this side of Wachtell and to stay there for as long as you’re going to subject yourself to biglaw acknowledging you’ll be bereft of the wafts of 1990s prestige emanating off Cravath’s corpse lol. The 1.5xs, 1.2xs, 1.4xs etc. start to add up especially as you get more senior.

Don't nearly all of us go through the ringer twice though? At least those of us who don't go in-house at year 3 or before. If you're probably working at two firms during your time as a BL associate, you probably maximize your earnings by making KE the second one. That could change/the market could cool down, but playing it this way seems like a reasonable bet to me.

[Anonymous User]

Also curious about retention bonuses. Will most likely be starting at KE and I already know I’ll be bitter if only these lateral bonuses exist in a few years.

[Anonymous User]

Cravath anon getting dragged above: my point isn’t that Cravath doesn’t also suck (I think it does!) it’s that K&E’s paying high signing bonuses is a sign of weakness, not strength. The kind of lateral candidates that they want don’t want to work there because it’s a well known dumpster fire and the high $$$ is a reaction to that reputation to try to get some of them to come anyway.

I would be lying if me and my friends hadn’t had the conversation about whether we think a year at K&E is worth the extra $$ but the consensus (among by anecdotal network) is no. Some people make a different calculation but if K&E weren’t viewed as being a less attractive option, why would they have to pay up for talent?

Except that K&E has hired 11 laterals (not counting equity partners) into the NY office's M&A group from V5s in the last two years alone, including 3 from WLRK and 3 from Cravath.

The bolded part of your statement is absolutely hilarious. You need to come back to reality - nobody thinks you and your buds are cool.

I dunno. not the same anon, but I'd be pretty pissed if I was a K&E midlevel and found out Ed Lee was bringing in some WLRK guys my year who had packages guaranteeing them 2x my comp for the same hours + work

I'm sure it's good for the WLRK folks (improved QOL, comp guarantee, partner advocate + potential shot at shares) ... that can't sit well with the homegrown folks, no?

[Anonymous User]

I dunno. not the same anon, but I'd be pretty pissed if I was a K&E midlevel and found out Ed Lee was bringing in some WLRK guys my year who had packages guaranteeing them 2x my comp for the same hours + work

I'm sure it's good for the WLRK folks (improved QOL, comp guarantee, partner advocate + potential shot at shares) ... that can't sit well with the homegrown folks, no?

I know at least one WLRK attorney at KE who has told me that they have been working harder than they have been at WLRK this past 1.5 years, so I'm not sure the grass is greener in this situation. Though, I'm pretty sure this person is going to get shares in the next couple of years, so maybe that's worth it.

[Anonymous User]

I dunno. not the same anon, but I'd be pretty pissed if I was a K&E midlevel and found out Ed Lee was bringing in some WLRK guys my year who had packages guaranteeing them 2x my comp for the same hours + work

I'm sure it's good for the WLRK folks (improved QOL, comp guarantee, partner advocate + potential shot at shares) ... that can't sit well with the homegrown folks, no?

I know at least one WLRK attorney at KE who has told me that they have been working harder than they have been at WLRK this past 1.5 years, so I'm not sure the grass is greener in this situation. Though, I'm pretty sure this person is going to get shares in the next couple of years, so maybe that's worth it.

delete

[Anonymous User]

Do signing bonuses typically have just a one year clawback? Considering lateraling to Kirkland for the lareral bonus before leaving big law altogether in a year. Third year in M&A at a V10.

[Anonymous User]

Do signing bonuses typically have just a one year clawback? Considering lateraling to Kirkland for the lareral bonus before leaving big law altogether in a year. Third year in M&A at a V10.

2 yr