London (CSM/K&E/L&W) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey all.

I have been searching through older posts about the London experience and would like to hear some more up to date opinions, especially with these 3 firms (top of the market I guess). Yes, I know about doing the same rote HY work but really want to know about lifestyle (or lack thereof). My understanding is that whilst these firms tend to work hard, if there is not much going on or if the market is slow then you pretty much have a free weekend. Is that a fair assessment? I know that one will be working hard anywhere in this field but just want the comfort to know that if things are slow then I at least get most of a weekend off and holidays are respected.

I know even a lot of firms vary with their culture around imposing on holidays etc but wanted views on these London firms specifically.

[Anonymous User]

Hey all.

I have been searching through older posts about the London experience and would like to hear some more up to date opinions, especially with these 3 firms (top of the market I guess). Yes, I know about doing the same rote HY work but really want to know about lifestyle (or lack thereof). My understanding is that whilst these firms tend to work hard, if there is not much going on or if the market is slow then you pretty much have a free weekend. Is that a fair assessment? I know that one will be working hard anywhere in this field but just want the comfort to know that if things are slow then I at least get most of a weekend off and holidays are respected.

I know even a lot of firms vary with their culture around imposing on holidays etc but wanted views on these London firms specifically.

Heard this from a friend at Cravath London: they're apparently bleeding associates because they're getting worked to death over there, at least for the past year or so.

[Anonymous User]

I heard K&E has the best COLA, if that matters to you.

[Anonymous User]

Hey all.

I have been searching through older posts about the London experience and would like to hear some more up to date opinions, especially with these 3 firms (top of the market I guess). Yes, I know about doing the same rote HY work but really want to know about lifestyle (or lack thereof). My understanding is that whilst these firms tend to work hard, if there is not much going on or if the market is slow then you pretty much have a free weekend. Is that a fair assessment? I know that one will be working hard anywhere in this field but just want the comfort to know that if things are slow then I at least get most of a weekend off and holidays are respected.

I know even a lot of firms vary with their culture around imposing on holidays etc but wanted views on these London firms specifically.

Heard this from a friend at Cravath London: they're apparently bleeding associates because they're getting worked to death over there, at least for the past year or so.

Cravath have had this grinding reputation in London for years. It used to be the case that all the US firms ran their London offices like tiny extensions of the NY office. Corp associates would cycle in for a few years, get worked real hard, and the understanding was always that they were "on loan" more or less from NY, and got a nice COLA to incentivize. Eventually, most US firms started operating their London offices like stand alone offices, with larger head counts, more diverse practices, UK/EU attorneys, and an expectation that they generate at least some large amount of business on their own. Last I checked Cravath ran it's London operation more like the old system, but maybe someone knows more recent news.

As for COLA, firms play all sorts of shenanigans with these (opaque FX calculations not in your favor, reductions over time, etc). Not saying COLA isn't nice, but it's a pretty shaky incentive to rely on.

[Anonymous User]

Hey all.

I have been searching through older posts about the London experience and would like to hear some more up to date opinions, especially with these 3 firms (top of the market I guess). Yes, I know about doing the same rote HY work but really want to know about lifestyle (or lack thereof). My understanding is that whilst these firms tend to work hard, if there is not much going on or if the market is slow then you pretty much have a free weekend. Is that a fair assessment? I know that one will be working hard anywhere in this field but just want the comfort to know that if things are slow then I at least get most of a weekend off and holidays are respected.

I know even a lot of firms vary with their culture around imposing on holidays etc but wanted views on these London firms specifically.

Heard this from a friend at Cravath London: they're apparently bleeding associates because they're getting worked to death over there, at least for the past year or so.

Cravath have had this grinding reputation in London for years. It used to be the case that all the US firms ran their London offices like tiny extensions of the NY office. Corp associates would cycle in for a few years, get worked real hard, and the understanding was always that they were "on loan" more or less from NY, and got a nice COLA to incentivize. Eventually, most US firms started operating their London offices like stand alone offices, with larger head counts, more diverse practices, UK/EU attorneys, and an expectation that they generate at least some large amount of business on their own. Last I checked Cravath ran it's London operation more like the old system, but maybe someone knows more recent news.

As for COLA, firms play all sorts of shenanigans with these (opaque FX calculations not in your favor, reductions over time, etc). Not saying COLA isn't nice, but it's a pretty shaky incentive to rely on.

I think COLA is the best and perhaps only reason to go to London. You’re basically getting the salary of an associate who is three to four years above you in the US.

[Sackboy]

I've never heard of a U.S. biglaw firm not working its associates to death in London. If you really want to go to London, take a one week vacation there. That'll be more than enough to satiate your desires for a lifetime.

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone know what COLA is at Weil, Paul Weiss, Milbank and Sullivan?

[Anonymous User]

Hey all.

I have been searching through older posts about the London experience and would like to hear some more up to date opinions, especially with these 3 firms (top of the market I guess). Yes, I know about doing the same rote HY work but really want to know about lifestyle (or lack thereof). My understanding is that whilst these firms tend to work hard, if there is not much going on or if the market is slow then you pretty much have a free weekend. Is that a fair assessment? I know that one will be working hard anywhere in this field but just want the comfort to know that if things are slow then I at least get most of a weekend off and holidays are respected.

I know even a lot of firms vary with their culture around imposing on holidays etc but wanted views on these London firms specifically.

Heard this from a friend at Cravath London: they're apparently bleeding associates because they're getting worked to death over there, at least for the past year or so.

Cravath have had this grinding reputation in London for years. It used to be the case that all the US firms ran their London offices like tiny extensions of the NY office. Corp associates would cycle in for a few years, get worked real hard, and the understanding was always that they were "on loan" more or less from NY, and got a nice COLA to incentivize. Eventually, most US firms started operating their London offices like stand alone offices, with larger head counts, more diverse practices, UK/EU attorneys, and an expectation that they generate at least some large amount of business on their own. Last I checked Cravath ran it's London operation more like the old system, but maybe someone knows more recent news.

As for COLA, firms play all sorts of shenanigans with these (opaque FX calculations not in your favor, reductions over time, etc). Not saying COLA isn't nice, but it's a pretty shaky incentive to rely on.

No first-hand knowledge on Cravath London, but I'm a junior at another US firm in London, and one of our juniors lateraled there recently. I've also heard separately that Cravath London has hired/is looking to hire a bunch of laterals, which seems very different from the "no-lateral" line that Cravath NY is known for. I was surprised that they didn't just request people from NY.

[Anonymous User]

I'm heading to a v10 with a big London office. Is it difficult to transfer to the London office for a year or two?

[Anonymous User]

friend did 2 years at CSM London - did not bill under 2,700 either year he was there. sounded like those hours weren't abnormal. i've not heard great things about K&E london either, fwiw.

[Anonymous User]

I'm heading to a v10 with a big London office. Is it difficult to transfer to the London office for a year or two?

Do you have a UK passport? To transfer permanently is fairly doable in capital markets, levfin, not too hard in corporate/PE, and challenging from specialist groups (L&E etc) unless you are willing to become UK qualified (which is time consuming but not difficult). To transfer only temporarily, I think you'll need a compelling reason to convince the firm to arrange visas, relocation etc.

[Anonymous User]

Is London really that much more expensive than NY?

[Anonymous User]

friend did 2 years at CSM London - did not bill under 2,700 either year he was there. sounded like those hours weren't abnormal. i've not heard great things about K&E london either, fwiw.

K&E associate here, no amount of money is worth it to work in the London office. They work like dogs, online past midnight on a regular basis bc they are often working with counterparties in the states. I’m sure this issue exists at other top firms as well but I’d bet K&E is at the tail end of the curve.

[Anonymous User]

Is London really that much more expensive than NY?

It's actually cheaper, and with more money if you get cola, that's the lure of moving from NYC to london

[The Lsat Airbender]

Is London really that much more expensive than NY?

It's actually cheaper, and with more money if you get cola, that's the lure of moving from NYC to london

COLA is meant to true you up for taxes and exchange rates; it's better than it used to be because GBP has weakened lately. (Might get adjusted down sometime in the next decade once the Brexit dust settles.) But in terms of actual cost of living London is comparable to NYC—and like NYC you can turn the dial by choosing how much to spend on housing.

[Anonymous User]

Is London really that much more expensive than NY?

It's actually cheaper, and with more money if you get cola, that's the lure of moving from NYC to london

COLA is meant to true you up for taxes and exchange rates; it's better than it used to be because GBP has weakened lately. (Might get adjusted down sometime in the next decade once the Brexit dust settles.) But in terms of actual cost of living London is comparable to NYC—and like NYC you can turn the dial by choosing how much to spend on housing.

Agreed. Although I think at least for housing London is cheaper (by a margin actually).

https://www.urbanabroad.com/new-york-vs-london/