Chicago associates: Where do people live? How much do you pay in rent? Forum

[Anonymous User]

As a former Chicagoan now in NY, I do get annoyed when Chicagoans act like the rent difference between Chicago and NY is pure arbitrage, and you're getting "the exact same apartment for $2000" that in NY would be $4000. Clearly that level of arbitrage does not exist, despite what Chicagoans claim. One is in the midwest and has more crime, a less diverse and cosmpolitan culture, and worse weather.

[Anonymous User]

As this conversation is ongoing, I just got an e-mail from the University of Chicago regarding the recent murder of one of its students.

https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2021/11/10 ... ong-zheng/

Not remotely surprising. Hyde Park is next to some of the most dangerous areas in Chicago, and UChicago notoriously needs to maintain the largest college police force in the country to deal with it (or at least engage in sufficient security theater).

Hyde Park typically has crime rates comparable to Lincoln Park, etc. Crime doesn't spill over much because gangs don't operate in the neighborhood, Woodlawn has gotten safer, and the whole area is heavily policed (though fwiw UCPD is nowhere near the world's largest private police force, that's an urban legend). Students didn't think twice about walking alone at night when I was there. But UChicago has had a rough 2021. That wasn't even the only shooting in Hyde Park yesterday--there was another one at 53rd and Harper, which is if anything even safer than 54th and Ellis, also in broad daylight. (To be clear, it's normally perfectly safe, and yesterday was probably the most shocking day of the decade there, a huge outlier, but that just means that living in a perfectly safe neighborhood and minding your own business won't necessarily protect you in the current environment.)

[Anonymous User]

OP here

Thread got pretty derailed but jeeze am I wrong to feel...not entirely great about moving to Chicago? Not from Chicago, always assumed the violent crime was similar to every other major city and that the more frequent crime was confined to the south side of the city. I've lived in a major city before and did fine, but some of these comments are fairly disheartening.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Crime is normally confined to "bad" neighborhoods, but it's up everywhere right now, and neighborhoods that typically have almost no violent crime now have some. It's also not unique to Chicago, which statistically speaking is not all that dangerous of a city. Due to its political salience crime in Chicago just gets a lot more play than e.g. crime in DC even though their violent crime rates are very similar (DC had more last year).

[Anonymous User]

Crime is normally confined to "bad" neighborhoods, but it's up everywhere right now, and neighborhoods that typically have almost no violent crime now have some. It's also not unique to Chicago, which statistically speaking is not all that dangerous of a city. Due to its political salience crime in Chicago just gets a lot more play than e.g. crime in DC even though their violent crime rates are very similar (DC had more last year).

Yeah that makes sense. The political salience point is why I always thought it was pretty overblown (relative to how other cities are), these comments just made me think otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

Crime is normally confined to "bad" neighborhoods, but it's up everywhere right now, and neighborhoods that typically have almost no violent crime now have some. It's also not unique to Chicago, which statistically speaking is not all that dangerous of a city. Due to its political salience crime in Chicago just gets a lot more play than e.g. crime in DC even though their violent crime rates are very similar (DC had more last year).

Yeah that makes sense. The political salience point is why I always thought it was pretty overblown (relative to how other cities are), these comments just made me think otherwise.

It makes me sad that these people are making you feel freaked out about Chicago. It's a wonderful city and crime is a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of people in your position.

A lot of the issue these days (in my opinion) is that local law enforcement feels hamstrung by the political leadership of the city, so the police trumpet (often but not always racially coded) rhetoric about how our (black lesbian) Mayor is basically letting "real Chicagoans" be pushed into the sea, and in response (and in support of their political priorities that diminish the importance of police), the political leadership acts as if there's never been so much as a jaywalker since Rauner left office. So they frequently seem completely detached from reality in face of a demonstrably increased crime rate.

So hopefully that explains the radical divergence of opinion you've seen, but it's basically all too extreme in one direction or another. I will be very surprised if you actually experience anything like the apocalypse described on this thread, but you probably need to watch where you're walking a little more than you would in NYC.

I've lived here a very long time and love it a little more every year, and I hope you will too.

[Anonymous User]

Crime is normally confined to "bad" neighborhoods, but it's up everywhere right now, and neighborhoods that typically have almost no violent crime now have some. It's also not unique to Chicago, which statistically speaking is not all that dangerous of a city. Due to its political salience crime in Chicago just gets a lot more play than e.g. crime in DC even though their violent crime rates are very similar (DC had more last year).

Yeah that makes sense. The political salience point is why I always thought it was pretty overblown (relative to how other cities are), these comments just made me think otherwise.

It makes me sad that these people are making you feel freaked out about Chicago. It's a wonderful city and crime is a non-issue for the overwhelming majority of people in your position.

A lot of the issue these days (in my opinion) is that local law enforcement feels hamstrung by the political leadership of the city, so the police trumpet (often but not always racially coded) rhetoric about how our (black lesbian) Mayor is basically letting "real Chicagoans" be pushed into the sea, and in response (and in support of their political priorities that diminish the importance of police), the political leadership acts as if there's never been so much as a jaywalker since Rauner left office. So they frequently seem completely detached from reality in face of a demonstrably increased crime rate.

So hopefully that explains the radical divergence of opinion you've seen, but it's basically all too extreme in one direction or another. I will be very surprised if you actually experience anything like the apocalypse described on this thread, but you probably need to watch where you're walking a little more than you would in NYC.

I've lived here a very long time and love it a little more every year, and I hope you will too.

This was a really nice comment - especially for this website - and I am thankful that you posted it. Thank you, and I'm glad you love Chicago!

[Dcc617]

The discussion about crime in Chicago in this is absolutely asinine.

You're safe in Chicago. I've lived here for a while. The narrative about terrible crime is a right-wing narrative meant to attack the Defund the Police movement. Police statistics are absolute horse shit.

There are areas where violent crime is more likely to occur (perpetrated by citizens and police). Those areas are marginalized neighborhoods that yuppie young lawyers won't go anywhere close.

The hysterical posting about how dangerous the cities are sound like something from Tucker Carlson.

Downtown Chicago is fine.

[Necho2]

The discussion about crime in Chicago in this is absolutely asinine.

You're safe in Chicago. I've lived here for a while. The narrative about terrible crime is a right-wing narrative meant to attack the Defund the Police movement. Police statistics are absolute horse shit.

There are areas where violent crime is more likely to occur (perpetrated by citizens and police). Those areas are marginalized neighborhoods that yuppie young lawyers won't go anywhere close.

The hysterical posting about how dangerous the cities are sound like something from Tucker Carlson.

Downtown Chicago is fine.

+1 (I had 3 wonderful years in Chicago, didn't feel unsafe for a minute)

[Anonymous User]

The discussion about crime in Chicago in this is absolutely asinine.

You're safe in Chicago. I've lived here for a while. The narrative about terrible crime is a right-wing narrative meant to attack the Defund the Police movement. Police statistics are absolute horse shit.

There are areas where violent crime is more likely to occur (perpetrated by citizens and police). Those areas are marginalized neighborhoods that yuppie young lawyers won't go anywhere close.

The hysterical posting about how dangerous the cities are sound like something from Tucker Carlson.

Downtown Chicago is fine.

You have a clear political agenda here and are badly ignoring actual hard statistics showing a rise in violent crime, including sexual assaults, car jackings, and shootings in areas that are where "young yuppie lawyers" frequent throughout the city.

[Anonymous User]

OP here

Thread got pretty derailed but jeeze am I wrong to feel...not entirely great about moving to Chicago? Not from Chicago, always assumed the violent crime was similar to every other major city and that the more frequent crime was confined to the south side of the city. I've lived in a major city before and did fine, but some of these comments are fairly disheartening.

In this entire exchange, I haven't seen one comment suggesting that you shouldn't move to Chicago. The people who are commenting here live in and work in Chicago; our livelihoods and families are presumably based here. Personally, I'm born and raised here and have watched trends in crime, politics, social issues for decades. What you should pick up on is that many of the "first landing" neighborhoods where young associates typically end up in (Loop / Printer's Row, River North, and then Streeterville, South Loop and Gold Coast to a lesser extent) have experienced a significant rise in violent crime over the past 18-24 months.

If I were in your shoes, that would be a spur for me to look beyond that core and into other neighborhoods, like West Loop, River West, Lincoln Park, Wicker Park, which, though also being affected by the general rise in crime in the city, seem to have borne less of the brunt of it. Which is anyway a good thing because as some of us said earlier in this exchange, most of those "first landing" neighborhoods are places that people grow out of quickly anyway so in a way this is just accelerating what would have happened to your housing evolution naturally.

How would I describe things in Chicago right now? I'd describe it as fine but not great. I'm in the Loop almost every night and it's crazy how empty it is vs. 24 months ago. Random violent crime is happening in the city center sporadically and police don't seem to be doing much about it, either because they can't or they won't. Car jackings are way up all over the city. It makes me feel unsettled and I keep my head much more on a swivel when I'm walking around at night than I did pre-COVID. So pick a neighborhood that you can go home to where you can actually enjoy your life and have some good QoL.

[thisismytlsuername]

I love the underlying implication from the right that police somehow *prevent* or *stop* crime. They barely fucking *investigate* past crimes, let alone pull some Minority Report shit to stop future crimes. The idea that, in April/May/June 2020 something happened that where police "lost control" of major cities is insane. What changed with respect to police then? People asked them to stop killing minorities? People wanted them to stop carrying military gear for police work? People wanted them to stop milking city budgets for billions of dollars of overtime for playing on their phones and napping in their cars? Did a flip switch on May 31 that stopped the NYPD, who previously were able to somehow *prevent* people from breaking windows and looting stores, from being suddenly being unable to do so?

No. What actually happened was the social contract broke down. People lost their jobs (covid), people were no longer able to attend community functions (covid), go to school (covid), and it became more publicized than ever that police can effectively do whatever they want with impunity (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, police kettling peaceful protesters and beating the shit out of them for no reason, cops lying about $2.4 million worth of merchandise being stolen from a Rolex store: https://www.gq.com/story/watch-store-lo ... rchandise.). Those things all combined to create an uptick in crime. And to be clear, most major cities are still safer than they have been at any point in history except for like 2014-2019. They are MUCH safer than they were in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

But that won't stop the cops from using these increased levels of crimes to seek further increased budgets/resources/weapons/impunity, because cops aren't public servants. They serve their own interests first.

[Anonymous User]

I love the underlying implication from the right that police somehow *prevent* or *stop* crime. They barely fucking *investigate* past crimes, let alone pull some Minority Report shit to stop future crimes. The idea that, in April/May/June 2020 something happened that where police "lost control" of major cities is insane. What changed with respect to police then? People asked them to stop killing minorities? People wanted them to stop carrying military gear for police work? People wanted them to stop milking city budgets for billions of dollars of overtime for playing on their phones and napping in their cars? Did a flip switch on May 31 that stopped the NYPD, who previously were able to somehow *prevent* people from breaking windows and looting stores, from being suddenly being unable to do so?

No. What actually happened was the social contract broke down. People lost their jobs (covid), people were no longer able to attend community functions (covid), go to school (covid), and it became more publicized than ever that police can effectively do whatever they want with impunity (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, police kettling peaceful protesters and beating the shit out of them for no reason, cops lying about $2.4 million worth of merchandise being stolen from a Rolex store: https://www.gq.com/story/watch-store-lo ... rchandise.). Those things all combined to create an uptick in crime. And to be clear, most major cities are still safer than they have been at any point in history except for like 2014-2019. They are MUCH safer than they were in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

But that won't stop the cops from using these increased levels of crimes to seek further increased budgets/resources/weapons/impunity, because cops aren't public servants. They serve their own interests first.

It's possible for it to simultaneously be true that we need more good cops and also that our current cops are bad with bad practices.

Similarly, it's possible for it to be true that Chicago is safer than it used to be while at the same time worse than elsewhere.

Last, just because I'm safe in my white north side neighborhood (though, since it's uptown, it's not actually that white or that safe, at least not compared to the other neighborhoods being discussed here) doesn't mean that I shouldn't be bothered by crimes nearby.

And claiming that a shooting in a failed robbery is somehow due to covid is bizarre. The city isn't locked down, and wages for low-paid workers in particular have jumped massively. I'll grant you, though, that the fact that we're forced to wear masks has clearly made it a lot easier for criminals to cover their faces.

[thisismytlsuername]

I love the underlying implication from the right that police somehow *prevent* or *stop* crime. They barely fucking *investigate* past crimes, let alone pull some Minority Report shit to stop future crimes. The idea that, in April/May/June 2020 something happened that where police "lost control" of major cities is insane. What changed with respect to police then? People asked them to stop killing minorities? People wanted them to stop carrying military gear for police work? People wanted them to stop milking city budgets for billions of dollars of overtime for playing on their phones and napping in their cars? Did a flip switch on May 31 that stopped the NYPD, who previously were able to somehow *prevent* people from breaking windows and looting stores, from being suddenly being unable to do so?

No. What actually happened was the social contract broke down. People lost their jobs (covid), people were no longer able to attend community functions (covid), go to school (covid), and it became more publicized than ever that police can effectively do whatever they want with impunity (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, police kettling peaceful protesters and beating the shit out of them for no reason, cops lying about $2.4 million worth of merchandise being stolen from a Rolex store: https://www.gq.com/story/watch-store-lo ... rchandise.). Those things all combined to create an uptick in crime. And to be clear, most major cities are still safer than they have been at any point in history except for like 2014-2019. They are MUCH safer than they were in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

But that won't stop the cops from using these increased levels of crimes to seek further increased budgets/resources/weapons/impunity, because cops aren't public servants. They serve their own interests first.

It's possible for it to simultaneously be true that we need more good cops and also that our current cops are bad with bad practices.

Similarly, it's possible for it to be true that Chicago is safer than it used to be while at the same time worse than elsewhere.

Last, just because I'm safe in my white north side neighborhood (though, since it's uptown, it's not actually that white or that safe, at least not compared to the other neighborhoods being discussed here) doesn't mean that I shouldn't be bothered by crimes nearby.

And claiming that a shooting in a failed robbery is somehow due to covid is bizarre. The city isn't locked down, and wages for low-paid workers in particular have jumped massively. I'll grant you, though, that the fact that we're forced to wear masks has clearly made it a lot easier for criminals to cover their faces.

Ok, so what changed in April/May/June 2020 that caused crime to start increasing?

[CapibaraBipolar]

Crime has gone up nationwide since the pandemic , and Chicago is no exception. That is the reality.
It has spilled to areas that used to have less, particularly river north.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/16/upsh ... icago.html

It still is a extremely small problem for people in most neighborhoods you will look at. In the Lincoln Park + Lakeview Area, the murder rate for the last year was 0.6/100K. So, the same as famously dangerous Switzerland. Most years is 0.

Chicago is a magnificent city, and you will love it here

Going back to your question, I live in River west. Pay 3200 for a 2BR in a high rise where I live with my partner, and my commute to Kirkland would be 10 minutes by bike, 30 minutes walking, or 13 minutes by transit.

[Anonymous User]

I love the underlying implication from the right that police somehow *prevent* or *stop* crime. They barely fucking *investigate* past crimes, let alone pull some Minority Report shit to stop future crimes. The idea that, in April/May/June 2020 something happened that where police "lost control" of major cities is insane. What changed with respect to police then? People asked them to stop killing minorities? People wanted them to stop carrying military gear for police work? People wanted them to stop milking city budgets for billions of dollars of overtime for playing on their phones and napping in their cars? Did a flip switch on May 31 that stopped the NYPD, who previously were able to somehow *prevent* people from breaking windows and looting stores, from being suddenly being unable to do so?

No. What actually happened was the social contract broke down. People lost their jobs (covid), people were no longer able to attend community functions (covid), go to school (covid), and it became more publicized than ever that police can effectively do whatever they want with impunity (George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, police kettling peaceful protesters and beating the shit out of them for no reason, cops lying about $2.4 million worth of merchandise being stolen from a Rolex store: https://www.gq.com/story/watch-store-lo ... rchandise.). Those things all combined to create an uptick in crime. And to be clear, most major cities are still safer than they have been at any point in history except for like 2014-2019. They are MUCH safer than they were in the 70s, 80s, and 90s.

But that won't stop the cops from using these increased levels of crimes to seek further increased budgets/resources/weapons/impunity, because cops aren't public servants. They serve their own interests first.

It's possible for it to simultaneously be true that we need more good cops and also that our current cops are bad with bad practices.

Similarly, it's possible for it to be true that Chicago is safer than it used to be while at the same time worse than elsewhere.

Last, just because I'm safe in my white north side neighborhood (though, since it's uptown, it's not actually that white or that safe, at least not compared to the other neighborhoods being discussed here) doesn't mean that I shouldn't be bothered by crimes nearby.

And claiming that a shooting in a failed robbery is somehow due to covid is bizarre. The city isn't locked down, and wages for low-paid workers in particular have jumped massively. I'll grant you, though, that the fact that we're forced to wear masks has clearly made it a lot easier for criminals to cover their faces.

Ok, so what changed in April/May/June 2020 that caused crime to start increasing?

Crime began spiking in June 2020; crime was actually low YOY March/April/May 2020. Doesn't track to the pandemic at all.

[Anonymous User]

I pay $1,100 for a nice studio in uptown. A similar one in NY would cost at least $2,800. I bought a nice watch with the money I saved.

[nixy]

Crime began spiking in June 2020; crime was actually low YOY March/April/May 2020. Doesn't track to the pandemic at all.

Obviously something famously happened at the end of May 2020 that affected attitudes towards the police/public order, but to say that the pandemic had nothing to do with the increase in crime is ridiculous.

[thisismytlsuername]

Crime began spiking in June 2020; crime was actually low YOY March/April/May 2020. Doesn't track to the pandemic at all.

Link with support?

But I'm glad the pandemic ended on June 1, 2020.

[Anonymous User]

A U of C employee was robbed at gunpoint just a couple blocks down 60th from the law school at 5:30 this morning.

[Anonymous User]

A U of C employee was robbed at gunpoint just a couple blocks down 60th from the law school at 5:30 this morning.

That's wild that the armed robbery was on 60th itself. As a recent U Chi law school graduate, we definitely all knew that you shouldn't head even a block south of the law school (not southeast, not southwest, and not directly south), but I would have considered 60th itself to be a relatively safe street. It's surrounded on either side of 60th by the public policy school and a nice, new food hall and dorms for undergraduates.

The shooting on 53rd the other day was absolutely bonkers, too -- it was right smack in the most commercialized and walkable streets in Hyde Park.

[Anonymous User]

A U Chicago Asian student was shot at Hyde Park earlier this week.

[Duck250]

I think part of the fear people have with Chicago is the randomness. The student killed on the way home on the train by a stray bullet is pretty scary. A student killed in broad daylight by a random guy who didn't even end up robbing him is pretty scary. It's scary to people because everyone can internalize "Crime is bad on the South Side and pockets in the west, but I'm not in a gang so I should be OK" but it's hard to shake a random student getting killed in broad daylight for no reason. Because it could easily be any of us.

I'm not sure it actually happens any more often in Chicago than in other places (I know NYC had a young kid killed because the gang members mistook him for someone else, and I know someone whose friend was stabbed to death in a gang initiation stabbing in DC a few years ago) but the stories are understandably concerning.

I like Chicago a lot but it's not racist to say it's having an issue with crime, more so than even most places.

[Dcc617]

It's factually false though. That's the thing.

Crime is still historically low. Crime decreased in 2020.

The media narrative about out of control crime is literally police propaganda to counter protests against policing. And hysterical crime pieces get people to click.

It's bonkers to point to an instance of violence and say it's indicative that the whole city needs to be afraid.