How are open floor plans/glass offices? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'd personally prefer more privacy, but also curious how people who worked in open floor plans or glass offices dealt with them. Are they as bad as people make them out to be? Were they actually not as bad as you worried (even if still bad)?

If it wasn't as bad, in what regards was it not as bad, or how did you make it less bad?

[Anonymous User]

I'd personally prefer more privacy, but also curious how people who worked in open floor plans or glass offices dealt with them. Are they as bad as people make them out to be? Were they actually not as bad as you worried (even if still bad)?

If it wasn't as bad, in what regards was it not as bad, or how did you make it less bad?

Absolutely terrible (with some minimal exceptions). I was at a firm that wanted to do "open floor plans" and glass offices, and at first it was chill because they put groups of juniors in corner office 'alcoves'. During construction they put all lawyers in a cubicle farm, and the partners LOVED being able to see what everyone was doing at any given time and exactly when people came in and left etc. Needless to say, the firm proceeded to gaslight associates and tell them that "we've heard the feedback and blah blah so we're going to do cubicles for all junior (and some midlevel) associates"

It was terrible, people 1st-4th year were taken out of offices (solo offices for 3rd and 4th years) to be in fishbowl cubicles and there was not enough room to have calls without being disrupted. They didn't have white noise machines or anything so you could constantly hear whatever the secretaries were talking about or partners having calls down the hall. Also, I don't know who designed these cubicles but they were terrible. There was a white board behind the computer monitor (completely inaccessible) and instead of desk space to your left or right there was either nothing or a weird recessed mini couch thing that no one could sit at unless you were getting frisky.

The one positive is that the glass offices allowed some internal offices to get more light, but not noticeably tbh.

[LBJ's Hair]

have worked in all three (private office, glass office, open floor plan).

private office is obviously the best

glass office is fine. you get more light. downside is people seem to just barge in if they spot you in there and have a question, even if your door is closed. which is annoying.

open floor plans are an abomination. glass office problem applies, no privacy, and enjoy listening to the sounds of 30 different BigLaw lawyers doing their jobs, all day every day. maybe it works in tech b/c the engineers (a) barely do any work, and (b) don't have calls. but in BigLaw, good fucking luck. it doesn't build culture, it just saves the company money. invest in some expensive noise-canceling headphones. you will need them.

[lolwutpar]

Glass offices were not as obnoxious as I anticipated. Only downsides are you can't use it for private things, like changing and it's a lot easier for annoying people to walk around and see who is in. Ideally the office is oriented so people can't see your monitor.

[Anonymous User]

Glass offices were not as obnoxious as I anticipated. Only downsides are you can't use it for private things, like changing and it's a lot easier for annoying people to walk around and see who is in. Ideally the office is oriented so people can't see your monitor.

Nobody can see your monitor, but they can see you check your phone, and they do barge in even when you're on a call. Makes it feel weird to eat and stuff too. Still a million times better than open or shared office.

[jhett]

I was in-house in a place with open offices, and it sucked. So much noise that I got noise-cancelling headphones to drown it out. Then I had to hunt down conference rooms for many of my calls because I was discussing confidential matters that I didn't want random people to hear.

[Anonymous User]

I literally would switch firms if my firm told me they were going open floorplan. Well, that's not quite true. First I'd totally stop going into the office and see how long I could just work from home but failing that I'd switch firms. Open office is incompatible with the work requirements of biglaw and anyone claiming otherwise is lying to themselves or you.

[Anonymous User]

I literally would switch firms if my firm told me they were going open floorplan. Well, that's not quite true. First I'd totally stop going into the office and see how long I could just work from home but failing that I'd switch firms. Open office is incompatible with the work requirements of biglaw and anyone claiming otherwise is lying to themselves or you.

Same. I would legit quit, or if lateraling, think very long and hard before accepting that offer. Open offices are a fucking abomination and should be avoided at all costs. Dreadful for both personal and professional reasons. Also could raise issues with firewalling conflicts between teams within the firm.

I’m in a glass office and it’s really not that bad. Yeah, I’d prefer a fully private office, but glass is a massive massive upgrade over fully open. You eliminate all the noise/verbal privacy issues (which I think are by far the biggest), and partially reduce the other privacy issues: people can peek at you but won’t be literally standing behind you, you can attempt to signal availability with an open/closed door, and even clear glass makes it ever-so-slightly harder to see your screen.

There are also side benefits that YOU can see what others are doing, which makes it a little easier if you’re trying to stop by and chat in between someone’s calls or whatever. Or trying to avoid someone when you walk by. In our office the person inside can see the potential visitor and hand signal that they’re on a call without the need for an intrusive knock.

So in summary, it goes:
1. Private office
2. Glass office
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Working in an acid mine
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Working as a poop taster
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50 layers of garbage and hot lava
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3. Open offices

[Ultramar vistas]

Zero joke would quit without hesitation before working in an open office, and would be absolutely transparent about my rationale. There’s not much good about this industry, but having real offices is one of the few upsides.

[Anonymous User]

Open office was absolutely terrible. It was just as bad as we thought it would have been. One of the few things that was not overstated or exaggerated, in the life of a Big Law associate, is how bad an open-office layout is for getting work done if you're actually an associate (as opposed to the architect or marketer designing the space and lauding all the "collaboration" that gets done out in the open...LOL...)

Boies Schiller's office in Hudson Yards is pretty to look at, from a distance. It was even in last night's Succession season open. But it is TERRIBLE to actually work in, day to day, as an associate. The so-called white noise eliminators also just don't work. Do not work at a firm that tries to sell you on open office layouts.

[Right2BearArms]

Office has glass fronted offices with frosted glass except for the top and bottom ~18 inches, so while not as private as a full wall, pretty good by comparison to fully transparent glass. You can see when someone is in their office, but not clearly what they are doing when the door is closed. All associate offices are oriented so computer screens face the wall/window. (bonus points if you get an office that a mother returning from leave once had - those get an extra film of window frosting so the majority of the wall is almost fully opaque.)

We have a new space that is open concept and all of the new first years are stuck there until enough interior offices open for everyone to get one (if that happens), then they will get exterior offices when those become available (fwiw, all current first years / rising second year associates now have exterior offices to them selves). Not NYC market and we are one of the first offices here to have an open concept section... so we will see how it goes. I do know the firm got everyone sitting in open concept noise cancelling headphones. We will see what happens as more people return to the office and how it goes long term, but I don't anticipate it being that popular.

I am senior enough now that I will never get asked to sit in the open area, but I remember the unofficial poll that was taken 3-4 years ago when the space was being planned and the universal position was a big "f' that, we will all quit if you try to make us sit there."

[Anonymous User]

Had an open floor plan/bullpen style desk and was absolutely miserable. Couldn’t focus and had to wear headphones all day to block out the noise and felt constantly watched. Absurd to put lawyers in that setup and expect productivity.

I have a glass office now, but it has shades I keep down but slightly open so people can see I’m in there but I don’t feel like I’m on display. It’s not bad.

[Wubbles]

If my firm moved me to an open setup I would never return from WFH and I like going into the office. Similarly, my firm is moving to a new office that's currently being built. If it has glass walls, it's wasted real estate because I'll be WFH.

[Ultramar vistas]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

[Anonymous User]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

Because it’s significantly cheaper. And not enough law students consider office layouts when making firm decisions. Plus juniors are more likely to just take it & move on.

[nealric]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

The office plan consultants are telling the boomer management that kids these days want open office. Seriously.

[Anonymous User]

What's going to happen if I put wallpaper on my glass wall

[Anonymous User]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

Because it’s significantly cheaper. And not enough law students consider office layouts when making firm decisions. Plus juniors are more likely to just take it & move on.

Open office maybe, but glass is not cheaper than frosted glass, at least not by much. "juniors are more likely to just take it and move on".... Exactly, that's why it's bad for retention.

[Anonymous User]

When I was a junior and we were told we would be moving to a new office with the open layout, some of the senior associates strongly objected. I objected but didn't think it was that big a deal. How wrong I was. Within days, I got a sense of how bad it was. It's just impossible to take calls, get work done, do your job efficiently or with a sense of peace...it's just terrible all around. If partners don't see that, they are bad managers from a business perspective no matter how talented they may be as lawyers.

[Anonymous User]

When I was a junior and we were told we would be moving to a new office with the open layout, some of the senior associates strongly objected. I objected but didn't think it was that big a deal. How wrong I was. Within days, I got a sense of how bad it was. It's just impossible to take calls, get work done, do your job efficiently or with a sense of peace...it's just terrible all around. If partners don't see that, they are bad managers from a business perspective no matter how talented they may be as lawyers.

You're approaching a very, very important insight about most lawyers ....

[Anonymous User]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

The office plan consultants are telling the boomer management that kids these days want open office. Seriously.

Or the office plan consultants are being told by boomer management to back them up on kids wanting open office, probably by bringing across irrelevant data from tech and advertising firms (where both work and people are very different). This is driven by partner greed above all. Basically real estate is the second biggest cost firms will face (after talent). Executive committees probably have COOs telling them that the cost of staff is higher as a portion of revenues (even if YoY profit increases are huge). So they'll look to increase margins in other ways.

As a bigger point, open office isn't consistent with return to office, especially in a post-pandemic environment - can they not see how the risk of spread increases when people are in such close proximity?

[Elvis_Dumervil]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

The office plan consultants are telling the boomer management that kids these days want open office. Seriously.

Or the office plan consultants are being told by boomer management to back them up on kids wanting open office, probably by bringing across irrelevant data from tech and advertising firms (where both work and people are very different). This is driven by partner greed above all. Basically real estate is the second biggest cost firms will face (after talent). Executive committees probably have COOs telling them that the cost of staff is higher as a portion of revenues (even if YoY profit increases are huge). So they'll look to increase margins in other ways.

As a bigger point, open office isn't consistent with return to office, especially in a post-pandemic environment - can they not see how the risk of spread increases when people are in such close proximity?

"post-pandemic" and "risk of spread" don't really go together. It's one or the other. Universities, for example, have everybody in close proximity and everything has been fine (HBS having a pathetic little fit being an exception)

[TigerIsBack]

I can't imagine the open floor plans are describing. I hate having a glass office (and it's the biggest reason I like working from home) because sometimes on a boring call where I'm not taking notes I want to put my feet on my desk and get comfy. I'd feel self conscious if people saw me doing that as an associate, which is not an issue at home or in a fully private office. I also sometimes just need to shut my eyes for 15 minutes even (especially) on the busiest days and it's pretty much guaranteed some partner would walk by my glass office and see me sleeping, and I'm sure some of them would joke at a lunch that all they ever see me do is sleeping or something.

But yeah, glass offices aren't horrible especially since it seems like our firm will never require more than 2-3 days in the office.

[Sad248]

I can't imagine the open floor plans are describing. I hate having a glass office (and it's the biggest reason I like working from home) because sometimes on a boring call where I'm not taking notes I want to put my feet on my desk and get comfy. I'd feel self conscious if people saw me doing that as an associate, which is not an issue at home or in a fully private office. I also sometimes just need to shut my eyes for 15 minutes even (especially) on the busiest days and it's pretty much guaranteed some partner would walk by my glass office and see me sleeping, and I'm sure some of them would joke at a lunch that all they ever see me do is sleeping or something.

But yeah, glass offices aren't horrible especially since it seems like our firm will never require more than 2-3 days in the office.

Completely the same here. Glass office, and I always feel like I'm being watched. So often times I just go to a different floor to take a minute and collect my thoughts/take a break. I'd feel way too self conscious to do that, I don't even feel like I can screw around on the Internet during my down time for a few minutes while eating a snack (like I'm doing now). I just have to be "on." I can't imagine how much worse an open floor plan would be.

[nealric]

It’s such a mystery to me why they do it. On every other point, law firms bend over backwards to recruit and retain, but in this one very straightforward area (offices. Private. With doors. If concerned about light in interior spaces, glass walls with frosting will suffice) they completely screw the pooch and make decisions that I know for a fact cost them talent. Bizarre.

The office plan consultants are telling the boomer management that kids these days want open office. Seriously.

Or the office plan consultants are being told by boomer management to back them up on kids wanting open office, probably by bringing across irrelevant data from tech and advertising firms (where both work and people are very different). This is driven by partner greed above all. Basically real estate is the second biggest cost firms will face (after talent). Executive committees probably have COOs telling them that the cost of staff is higher as a portion of revenues (even if YoY profit increases are huge). So they'll look to increase margins in other ways.

As a bigger point, open office isn't consistent with return to office, especially in a post-pandemic environment - can they not see how the risk of spread increases when people are in such close proximity?

I don't know, I just lost my private office (in-house), and an older management type (not the decision maker) was genuinely surprised when I told him that younger employees don't want open office. But you are definitely right that they are taking data from totally irrelevant industries to justify the decision.

I'm sure open office is fine if you are an advertising person who spends all day bouncing ideas off your co-workers or a trader who needs to be able to shout over to the guy at the next Bloomberg terminal. But it's totally counterproductive for law jobs that demand both quiet concentration and strict confidentiality on a regular basis.