Anyone switched to Cap Market from M&A (or other corporate practice)? Forum

[Anonymous User]

If someone switched to Cap Market from M&A, can you explain why?

I just started as a first-year in NYC big law and have been working with both M&A and Capital Markets groups.
Unlike the M&A deals where I've been working on the same projects for several weeks, the Cap Markets assignments were more like discrete tasks (editing excels/documents), which explains my experience in two groups has been very different. So it's hard to understand what juniors do in Cap Market.

The issue is I don't think I'm really interested in M&A work; I honestly think Cap Markets might suit my personality better because I've heard it involves a more mechanical/rote process. I also didn't enjoy the very hostile/emotional calls with the other side in M&A.

But I saw so many people wanting to switch from Cap Market to M&A; why is that?

Also, does anyone have any insights on Cap Market practice in London?

[Anonymous User]

Also curious to know which domestic and foreign cities have the bigger CapM practices?

[Anonymous User]

Also curious to know which domestic and foreign cities have the bigger CapM practices?

Following! To your question, I'd say NYC, HK and London.

[Anonymous User]

To answer your last question, for the very reason you describe: capM is rote and boring as shit. Yes I know someone who jumped from M&A to capM and it was a seamless transition. capM is by far the easiest of all of the corporate practices. Although the reg regime is pretty complicated, all of the work is already done for you.

[Neff]

As a sixth year corporate associate, capital markets to me feels like the very definition of paper pushing. It feels like a colossal waste of any JD's time and intellect. I find it dreadfully boring and rote, regardless of the client, the size of the deal, or the amount of the publicity. Every cap markets deal I've been on has made me ask existential questions about wasting my life in a way that I simply don't do with other types of work.

Yes, M&A is more emotional/hostile, more erratic hours, and is not without unpleasantness and tedium. But M&A deals have a narrative arc and feel more "human". You get to use your intuition and emotional intelligence, and there is an adrenaline rush about contentious negotiations that you may start to relish over time. Each deal is different and I remember most of my interesting deals.

The one advantage of capital markets work is that there is almost never any fee sensitivity, so it is fairly easy stuff your hours and, eventually, a capital markets-heavy practice is one of the strongest contenders when it comes to partnership prospects.

Also some people are just wired to be paper pushers and can tolerate it better.

So to each his/her own.

[Anonymous User]

Follow up for those talking about how capm is rote and mind numbing: is that equally true of both issuer-side and underwriter-side work? And do the top / band 1 shops (Davis Polk, Latham, etc.) somehow get more interesting work or just higher volume?

[Anonymous User]

Follow up for those talking about how capm is rote and mind numbing: is that equally true of both issuer-side and underwriter-side work? And do the top / band 1 shops (Davis Polk, Latham, etc.) somehow get more interesting work or just higher volume?

Issuer is more interesting, particularly when the issuer is new to the market or foreign or has some unique disclosure issue like acquisition financing. Being bank counsel is easy and boring, but a nice break from the hectic demands of M&A imo.

You can run CAPM deals by your third year and it’s very rare to say that for any M&A deal. CAPM is rinse and repeat and process driven. It’s good for juniors to get the experience imo, as you finally have some autonomy and learn how to herd cattle.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed with folks above on CapM, and just to add that there's also a public company advisory component in CapM -- corporate governance, disclosure, insider trading, annual meetings, etc. so it's also a little more varied than just doing deals.

[Anonymous User]

Agreed with folks above on CapM, and just to add that there's also a public company advisory component in CapM -- corporate governance, disclosure, insider trading, annual meetings, etc. so it's also a little more varied than just doing deals.

The corp governance stuff is the one thing I think would be beneficial in a capM practice when trying to go inhouse.

[Anonymous User]

Also, does anyone have any insights on Cap Market practice in London?

I work in CM in London. Happy to answer questions, but what are you looking for exactly?

[Anonymous User]

Follow up for those talking about how capm is rote and mind numbing: is that equally true of both issuer-side and underwriter-side work? And do the top / band 1 shops (Davis Polk, Latham, etc.) somehow get more interesting work or just higher volume?

Issuer side is more interesting than underwriter side. Re: second question, higher volume, primarily for bulge bracket banks - take a look at the firms news/deals page and see what deals they've been on recently, it's usually bank-side.

[Anonymous User]

Also, does anyone have any insights on Cap Market practice in London?

I work in CM in London. Happy to answer questions, but what are you looking for exactly?

I've looked at other TLS posts discussing CM work in London as I'm strongly interested in making the move. But many were quite pessimistic about the prospect of CM work in London (how the market is collapsing and moving to Paris/Frankfurt), especially due to Brexit.

What's your view on the prospect of the demand for US CM associates in London? Are the firms getting rid of COLA? I've also heard the US associates in London mostly focus on a very niche CM practice (high yield bonds) and I wonder if this would inevitably leave me with a few options when moving back to the states. Ideally, I'd like to move as a 3rd yr and come back to the US before I get too senior. Would you please provide any advice? Thanks a lot!

[Anonymous User]

Also, does anyone have any insights on Cap Market practice in London?

I work in CM in London. Happy to answer questions, but what are you looking for exactly?

I've looked at other TLS posts discussing CM work in London as I'm strongly interested in making the move. But many were quite pessimistic about the prospect of CM work in London (how the market is collapsing and moving to Paris/Frankfurt), especially due to Brexit.

What's your view on the prospect of the demand for US CM associates in London? Are the firms getting rid of COLA? I've also heard the US associates in London mostly focus on a very niche CM practice (high yield bonds) and I wonder if this would inevitably leave me with narrow options when moving back to the states. Ideally, I'd like to move as a 3rd yr and come back to the US before I get too senior. Would you please provide any advice? Thanks a lot!

[Anonymous User]

Follow up for those talking about how capm is rote and mind numbing: is that equally true of both issuer-side and underwriter-side work? And do the top / band 1 shops (Davis Polk, Latham, etc.) somehow get more interesting work or just higher volume?

DPW and Latham both do a lot of issuer side IPO work, which is far less rote than like...CLOs, ABS or whatever else you might be doing at lower tier shops.

[Anonymous User]

I've looked at other TLS posts discussing CM work in London as I'm strongly interested in making the move. But many were quite pessimistic about the prospect of CM work in London (how the market is collapsing and moving to Paris/Frankfurt), especially due to Brexit.

What's your view on the prospect of the demand for US CM associates in London?

I don't see this becoming any kind of issue. The past year has been relatively busy and I think there is an urge to get more associates in, not less. It's important to note that London is by far the largest market for US associates even after Brexit. Yes, there are more offerings now in Amsterdam and Germany and such, but that's not an issue. We are US associates, so the fact that the market changes doesn't really affect our work that much, we have to give our US specific advice regardless. It helps that the differences between the European financial markets aren't large.

Are the firms getting rid of COLA?

I can't imagine this. The US firms want to swipe all the good associates from the Magic Circle firms. The Magic Circle firms want to stop this from happening. There is zero incentive to quit COLA. I know most US firms are struggling to find US associates, so I doubt they want to kill this completely by taking away COLA. And as long as they still offer COLA, the Magic Circle firms will follow suit.

I've also heard the US associates in London mostly focus on a very niche CM practice (high yield bonds) and I wonder if this would inevitably leave me with a few options when moving back to the states. Ideally, I'd like to move as a 3rd yr and come back to the US before I get too senior. Would you please provide any advice? Thanks a lot!

I'd advise you to check in with more associates from different firms in London on this point as I think it depends per firm. My feeling is that you'll be luckier with a Magic Circle firm in this, as opposed to a US firm. Anyways, I know associates who only do HY bonds and I know those who have only done IPOs. You're right that you don't want to be in the former group (hours are worse and more erratic and it is less prestigious, definitely making it harder to lateral back to the US, although also not impossible), whereas the latter group can move back relatively easy (I know of associates in this category who have been offered positions in several V20 firms).

[Anonymous User]

Follow up for those talking about how capm is rote and mind numbing: is that equally true of both issuer-side and underwriter-side work? And do the top / band 1 shops (Davis Polk, Latham, etc.) somehow get more interesting work or just higher volume?

DPW and Latham both do a lot of issuer side IPO work, which is far less rote than like...CLOs, ABS or whatever else you might be doing at lower tier shops.

Latham yes, DPW not really. Tech firms like Cooley/WSGR/Goodwin/Fenwick etc. do a lot more issuer side work too. When in doubt, just check the firms news/deals page to see what deals they've been on recently and which side they're on. Check out league tables too (look at deal count not volume).

[Anonymous User]

I've looked at other TLS posts discussing CM work in London as I'm strongly interested in making the move. But many were quite pessimistic about the prospect of CM work in London (how the market is collapsing and moving to Paris/Frankfurt), especially due to Brexit.

What's your view on the prospect of the demand for US CM associates in London?

I don't see this becoming any kind of issue. The past year has been relatively busy and I think there is an urge to get more associates in, not less. It's important to note that London is by far the largest market for US associates even after Brexit. Yes, there are more offerings now in Amsterdam and Germany and such, but that's not an issue. We are US associates, so the fact that the market changes doesn't really affect our work that much, we have to give our US specific advice regardless. It helps that the differences between the European financial markets aren't large.

Are the firms getting rid of COLA?

I can't imagine this. The US firms want to swipe all the good associates from the Magic Circle firms. The Magic Circle firms want to stop this from happening. There is zero incentive to quit COLA. I know most US firms are struggling to find US associates, so I doubt they want to kill this completely by taking away COLA. And as long as they still offer COLA, the Magic Circle firms will follow suit.

I've also heard the US associates in London mostly focus on a very niche CM practice (high yield bonds) and I wonder if this would inevitably leave me with a few options when moving back to the states. Ideally, I'd like to move as a 3rd yr and come back to the US before I get too senior. Would you please provide any advice? Thanks a lot!

I'd advise you to check in with more associates from different firms in London on this point as I think it depends per firm. My feeling is that you'll be luckier with a Magic Circle firm in this, as opposed to a US firm. Anyways, I know associates who only do HY bonds and I know those who have only done IPOs. You're right that you don't want to be in the former group (hours are worse and more erratic and it is less prestigious, definitely making it harder to lateral back to the US, although also not impossible), whereas the latter group can move back relatively easy (I know of associates in this category who have been offered positions in several V20 firms).

This is really helpful. If I'm aiming for the London market, is Cap Market the only viable choice? Do you see any demands for finance (banking/credit) or M&A associates?