2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

I feel like this isn’t complicated. What was the average time in prior years for firms to announce bonuses following the first firm’s announcement that year end is the same as the prior year? What was the average time to match when retention bonuses were announced? I think I remember seeing a breakdown of this on another thread months ago. Firms that haven’t matched now are, IMHO, clearly considering raising or waiting for a peer to, or they would have just matched already. To me, the silence means they’re not sold the new scale holds and it will increase. Not a matter of if, but when.

I wonder if it's possible that one or more of these places was planning a massive increase (double the scale or whatever), but got a little bit spooked by the variant and are trying to hold off an announcement until the information there gets a little clearer?

While we're passing the time with wild guesses, here's my theory. DPW/Milbank expected Cravattth to raise by much more, then they'd swoop in with an extra 10% and be the market leader, even if another player increases by a little bit. But this increase leaves a lot of room for multiple increases. Milbank in particular got burnt when they upped to 200 and then DPW went to 205. So neither wants to go to a scale that lets the other beat them significantly.

Alternatively, maybe the issue is that if you want to set the scale you can't go too high. Need to find the goldilocks place where 50 firms follow you, and all those associates remember you come judgement day.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

Mid-level at DPW. Confirmed. Honestly all morning has been us bitching to each other about Neil's fucking troll email

What was the troll email?

Head of firm: "We are pleased to announce . ... that our firm is well regarded and won some awards lol"

[Anonymous User]

I feel like this isn’t complicated. What was the average time in prior years for firms to announce bonuses following the first firm’s announcement that year end is the same as the prior year? What was the average time to match when retention bonuses were announced? I think I remember seeing a breakdown of this on another thread months ago. Firms that haven’t matched now are, IMHO, clearly considering raising or waiting for a peer to, or they would have just matched already. To me, the silence means they’re not sold the new scale holds and it will increase. Not a matter of if, but when.

I wonder if it's possible that one or more of these places was planning a massive increase (double the scale or whatever), but got a little bit spooked by the variant and are trying to hold off an announcement until the information there gets a little clearer?

While we're passing the time with wild guesses, here's my theory. DPW/Milbank expected Cravattth to raise by much more, then they'd swoop in with an extra 10% and be the market leader, even if another player increases by a little bit. But this increase leaves a lot of room for multiple increases. Milbank in particular got burnt when they upped to 200 and then DPW went to 205. So neither wants to go to a scale that lets the other beat them significantly.

Alternatively, maybe the issue is that if you want to set the scale you can't go too high. Need to find the goldilocks place where 50 firms follow you, and all those associates remember you come judgement day.

Yeah I think Milbank will just wait for DPW to go first because of this, then will raise by 5k.

[Anonymous User]

Grateful for Milbank being a first mover in the past and forcing other firms to make a move but if we’re waiting for someone to come over the top then aren’t we mainly waiting for DPW?

Happy for Milbank to prove me wrong though.

[Anonymous User]

Next week will be the movement week. It's equally likely in my head that someone comes over the top vs. everyone who was planning to go over the top now quietly matches Cravath because they think that this pause is caused by all the other firms in the same position trying to make sure they don't get jumped if they just match.

But we only need one, and I expect that one raise at any point now would be followed by many quick matches who hope to prevent a re-raise.

We'll know next week, I think...

[Anonymous User]

At this point shouldn't we be rooting AGAINST a DPW/Milbank announcement today? If they announce late on Friday, may mean they don't want it to get publicity. If they're gonna pwn CravaTTTh on the other hand, they'll want that to get some press attention, so no reason to announce Friday afternoon.

My instinct was the opposite. If they announce Friday afternoon and it hits ATL before the weekend they are guaranteed a full weekend of being top dog with no matches. Announce on Monday and you get a bunch of matches that same day and it sinks in less that you’re the trendsetter.

So I’m still hopeful for a Friday surprise.

[TigerIsBack]

I feel like this isn’t complicated. What was the average time in prior years for firms to announce bonuses following the first firm’s announcement that year end is the same as the prior year? What was the average time to match when retention bonuses were announced? I think I remember seeing a breakdown of this on another thread months ago. Firms that haven’t matched now are, IMHO, clearly considering raising or waiting for a peer to, or they would have just matched already. To me, the silence means they’re not sold the new scale holds and it will increase. Not a matter of if, but when.

I wonder if it's possible that one or more of these places was planning a massive increase (double the scale or whatever), but got a little bit spooked by the variant and are trying to hold off an announcement until the information there gets a little clearer?

While we're passing the time with wild guesses, here's my theory. DPW/Milbank expected Cravattth to raise by much more, then they'd swoop in with an extra 10% and be the market leader, even if another player increases by a little bit. But this increase leaves a lot of room for multiple increases. Milbank in particular got burnt when they upped to 200 and then DPW went to 205. So neither wants to go to a scale that lets the other beat them significantly.

Alternatively, maybe the issue is that if you want to set the scale you can't go too high. Need to find the goldilocks place where 50 firms follow you, and all those associates remember you come judgement day.

Idk, I don't think there's such thing as too high if your only goal is good press/being sought after by laterals and 2Ls. If DPW makes the scale so high that only the true white shoe shops can follow, then they get good press with the people they care about (their current associates who are then effectively paid above market) and they become more attractive to laterals because it would be a pay bump to work at DPW.

Additionally, the current 0Ls that aren't following this current round of bonuses, will be 2Ls in a couple years. By that time, most of those 2Ls aren't going to go back and look at who raised the scale, they're just going to see that either all the firms pay the same and some will pick wherever they "fit" best, or they'll see that DPW and a few other places pay a bit more than the pack and will be more inclined to try to work there.

TL;DR: Take us to the moon DPW!!

[Anonymous User]

It’s 4pm ET on Friday … time to pack it up, folks.

What a tedious disappointment of a week it’s been. I’m cautiously optimistic that we’ll get what we want next week, though.

[glitched]

This is all just so bizarre. Money is supposed to hit our account in two weeks and still have no idea how much it is.

[Anonymous User]

At the risk of telling a bunch of overworked anxious folks (I am one of you!) to calm down, I have to think the more delay there is with news, the better chance its very good news (I.e. a better scale). I would be shocked if these marquee firms (many with retention issues) don’t make timely bonus payments to their folks. Given the hesitance of some firms that could match the current scale in a heartbeat if they wanted to to do so, there must be more serious rumblings of a higher scale in utero and they are holding out. So, it’s a contrarian take, but I say bring on a few more days of delay.

[Anonymous User]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

[hds2388]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

[Anonymous User]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

Love this

[Anonymous User]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

Counterpoint: CWT announces quickly now after a bunch of people complained that they took forever with comp decisions and it made them worry that the firm was considering not matching market.

(DPW and Milbank probably don't care though)

[Anonymous User]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

Love this

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

To be constructive: I do not think that anyone who has worked a week in biglaw is under any delusion that the organization or the industry gives two flying fucks about any particular associate's well being, morale, or anything similar. We are walking, talking profit centers at the firm. Our job is to bill bill bill. If some of us happen to receive professional development, so much the better.

I am sure there are some nice partners or senior counsel out there who genuinely care about their associates as human beings. But that is completely unrelated to the practice of law in a biglaw setting.

Have a good weekend everyone, hope you don't bill too much (I say as I get ready for a series of calls tonight and I am already planning out what assignments I need to knock out on Saturday, and which ones need to slip to Sunday).

This is what we all get for not voting for Bernie Sanders when we had the chance.

edit: anyone else getting "biglaw" autocorrected to "bigly"?

[hds2388]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

Love this

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

To be constructive: I do not think that anyone who has worked a week in biglaw is under any delusion that the organization or the industry gives two flying fucks about any particular associate's well being, morale, or anything similar. We are walking, talking profit centers at the firm. Our job is to bill bill bill. If some of us happen to receive professional development, so much the better.

I am sure there are some nice partners or senior counsel out there who genuinely care about their associates as human beings. But that is completely unrelated to the practice of law in a biglaw setting.

Have a good weekend everyone, hope you don't bill too much (I say as I get ready for a series of calls tonight and I am already planning out what assignments I need to knock out on Saturday, and which ones need to slip to Sunday).

This is what we all get for not voting for Bernie Sanders when we had the chance.

edit: anyone else getting "biglaw" autocorrected to "bigly"?

I am sorry you’re under so much stress and I hope that you catch a break soon. Having been in the biglaw world for the better part of a decade at two different firms, I can tell you there are definitely people (partners, admins, custodians, counsel, associates, staff) who do care about people’s well-being (and certainly people who do not). You deserve some of the good folks in your professional life, and I am sorry your firm hasn’t provided you with any so far.

[clone22]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

Love this

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

To be constructive: I do not think that anyone who has worked a week in biglaw is under any delusion that the organization or the industry gives two flying fucks about any particular associate's well being, morale, or anything similar. We are walking, talking profit centers at the firm. Our job is to bill bill bill. If some of us happen to receive professional development, so much the better.

I am sure there are some nice partners or senior counsel out there who genuinely care about their associates as human beings. But that is completely unrelated to the practice of law in a biglaw setting.

Have a good weekend everyone, hope you don't bill too much (I say as I get ready for a series of calls tonight and I am already planning out what assignments I need to knock out on Saturday, and which ones need to slip to Sunday).

This is what we all get for not voting for Bernie Sanders when we had the chance.

edit: anyone else getting "biglaw" autocorrected to "bigly"?

I am sorry you’re under so much stress and I hope that you catch a break soon. Having been in the biglaw world for the better part of a decade at two different firms, I can tell you there are definitely people (partners, admins, custodians, counsel, associates, staff) who do care about people’s well-being (and certainly people who do not). You deserve some of the good folks in your professional life, and I am sorry your firm hasn’t provided you with any so far.

I'm the anon you're replying to (accidental anon post). Nah, I'm just being a drama queen. There could be things a lot worse than working a ton for a ton of money - like being unemployed, or working the same 70-hour workweeks for minimum wage and no benefits across 3 different jobs. At the end of the day, we are the privileged few, and vast majority of the world would kill for chance to be in our shoes.

Back to billing y'all!

[hds2388]

This is a great reminder to everyone who's spent the past few weeks fretting and wondering what is going to happen with their year-end bonus: these firms do not give one shit about you or your cares or concerns. You're staying up at night this weekend wondering whether Cravath will be beaten, what's the plan for spring bonuses, how much of your loans you'll be able to pay off in January, if you can make that downpayment on the new house? The partners on the firm committee are flying to their holiday houses in Aspen, hope that fucking helps.

And you’ll spend your Friday evening anonymously yelling to stressed out people in an online chatroom that nobody loves them, instead of doing literally anything else. And onward the world spins until the 2022 bonus cycle.

Love this

I DON'T KNOW WHAT WE'RE YELLING ABOUT!

To be constructive: I do not think that anyone who has worked a week in biglaw is under any delusion that the organization or the industry gives two flying fucks about any particular associate's well being, morale, or anything similar. We are walking, talking profit centers at the firm. Our job is to bill bill bill. If some of us happen to receive professional development, so much the better.

I am sure there are some nice partners or senior counsel out there who genuinely care about their associates as human beings. But that is completely unrelated to the practice of law in a biglaw setting.

Have a good weekend everyone, hope you don't bill too much (I say as I get ready for a series of calls tonight and I am already planning out what assignments I need to knock out on Saturday, and which ones need to slip to Sunday).

This is what we all get for not voting for Bernie Sanders when we had the chance.

edit: anyone else getting "biglaw" autocorrected to "bigly"?

I am sorry you’re under so much stress and I hope that you catch a break soon. Having been in the biglaw world for the better part of a decade at two different firms, I can tell you there are definitely people (partners, admins, custodians, counsel, associates, staff) who do care about people’s well-being (and certainly people who do not). You deserve some of the good folks in your professional life, and I am sorry your firm hasn’t provided you with any so far.

I'm the anon you're replying to (accidental anon post). Nah, I'm just being a drama queen. There could be things a lot worse than working a ton for a ton of money - like being unemployed, or working the same 70-hour workweeks for minimum wage and no benefits across 3 different jobs. At the end of the day, we are the privileged few, and vast majority of the world would kill for chance to be in our shoes.

Back to billing y'all!

A+

[Anonymous User]

Can someone post the MoFo bonus memo? The hour thresholds for above-market bonuses seemed to be higher than other firms from what I could tell.

[Anonymous User]

Besides waiting on Milbank/DPW to smash the pathetic Cravath bonus scale, I'm also waiting with all my fingers crossed for Congress, the #1 most important group of obnoxious, self-involved boomers, to give us the mythical "increased SALT cap deduction" bonus.

[Anonymous User]

Can someone post the MoFo bonus memo? The hour thresholds for above-market bonuses seemed to be higher than other firms from what I could tell.

Has MoFo announced EOY bonus today?

[Anonymous User]

It is obvious what is happening here. DPW realized that it doesn’t make sense anymore to announce a month before bonuses are paid just so everyone has time to match. They are going to do it last minute, forcing others to match the cravath scale before DPW announces and then have to decide whether they are going to true their associates up when DPW announces a week before bonuses are paid. Inevitably some won’t, and the DPWs of the world further distinguish themselves to the market/recruits.

[Anonymous User]

It is obvious what is happening here. DPW realized that it doesn’t make sense anymore to announce a month before bonuses are paid just so everyone has time to match. They are going to do it last minute, forcing others to match the cravath scale before DPW announces and then have to decide whether they are going to true their associates up when DPW announces a week before bonuses are paid. Inevitably some won’t, and the DPWs of the world further distinguish themselves to the market/recruits.

Considering DPW has historically had one of the earlier payment dates, this theory doesn’t seem to hold much water. Most firms would have ample time to match DPW, and generally speaking, those that pay around the same time tend to be some of the richest firms and will have no trouble matching.

[Anonymous User]

Baker McKenzie made a non-announcement announcement today.

"By now you may have seen some announcements regarding a new bonus scale. The NA Leadership Team remains committed to pay market compensation and we do intend to match the prevailing scale for our U.S. Offices. A more detailed email regarding the new bonus scale and the Special Bonus eligibility will follow soon in early December."

[Anonymous User]

Besides waiting on Milbank/DPW to smash the pathetic Cravath bonus scale, I'm also waiting with all my fingers crossed for Congress, the #1 most important group of obnoxious, self-involved boomers, to give us the mythical "increased SALT cap deduction" bonus.

Seems like a wash given that Congress is also proposing to eliminate backdoor Roth IRAs.