2021 End of Year Bonuses Forum

[NoLongerALurker]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

Cravath partners everywhere in shambles

Maybe it’s like a check-raise in a poker game. They basically kept the bonus the same, DPW doubles the scale, and Cravath pounces by tripling the scale. No other reasonable explanation exists.

[forward]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

I have not filled out a Vault survey in years, but this year I will be looking forward to ranking CravaTTTh as the lowest ranking firm that the survey allows, and I encourage everyone to do the same.

They were cool back in the 19th century when they helped America purchase Alaska, but it's been a slow downhill slide ever since (why is this bit of trivia that I learned for OCI still occupying valuable storage space in my brain?).

+1. Same here. Every firm that has matched so far will join them in the vault cellar.

[Anonymous User]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

I think this may be part of DPW/Milbank's strategy, to really shine a light on the shift and by delaying they give less time for other firms to act, which means they might match DPW/Milbank very quickly.

[Anonymous User]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

Cravath partners everywhere in shambles

Maybe it’s like a check-raise in a poker game. They basically kept the bonus the same, DPW doubles the scale, and Cravath pounces by tripling the scale. No other reasonable explanation exists.

DPW/Milbank/STB or mystery leader X will outraise CSM this year and likely going forward. CSM profit sharing structure is egalitarian for partners but lacks the incentives of firms with market-structured profit sharing systems. Hence highest earners leaving CSM. CSM would have to swallow its pride eventually.

[Anonymous User]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

Cravath partners everywhere in shambles

Maybe it’s like a check-raise in a poker game. They basically kept the bonus the same, DPW doubles the scale, and Cravath pounces by tripling the scale. No other reasonable explanation exists.

DPW/Milbank/STB or mystery leader X will outraise CSM this year and likely going forward. CSM profit sharing structure is egalitarian for partners but lacks the incentives of firms with market-structured profit sharing systems. Hence highest earners leaving CSM. CSM would have to swallow its pride eventually.

Not much pride to swallow, honestly. They were known for big-ticket, public M&A work and mega IPOs. That market is dead and who knows how much SPAC work they've been getting which has been pretty much all of the public m&a work for the past two years.

They've already gone back on the whole "no laterals" thing. They used to claim an associate trained by another firm would not be of Cravath quality. Well, looks like an admission that that's total BS bc now they're hiring laterals. So, which is it? Cravath quality is down and now others can come in, or it was nonsense the whole time? Neither is a great look.

[cornerstone]

I think this may be part of DPW/Milbank's strategy, to really shine a light on the shift and by delaying they give less time for other firms to act, which means they might match DPW/Milbank very quickly.

This is an interesting take, especially given that payroll at a law firm needs time to sort out who gets what and when. DPW/Milbank may have made the decision already, and just want to force the rest of the field to match CSM so they can come in last minute to top everyone. That is, if they know that they are going to crush the CSM scale, what incentive do they have to announce it early on? Sure, their associates have to be on edge now, but in the end they will all remember that they beat market and not that the announcement was late.

[Anonymous User]

Dear Davis Polk,

Please do what you have always done - the right thing. Put Cravath to shame by sharing the wealth in the good times, and shatter the bonus scale. Much like Cravath and S&C, your history was made with the Morgans and the railroads. Much like them, you have cemented your place in the Mount Rushmore of law firms. But in many ways, you have been different from Cravath and S&C. You have not used your colored history helping shape America's economic dominance for the last two centuries as an excuse to keep operating "like the good ol' days". You have been kind and genteel, and you have progressed with the times as much as you possibly can without dirtying your elite white shoes. Sure your culture isn't as cool as the new kids on the elite block (*cough* Latham), but you certainly always try to be better. Please help us help you re-claim your rightful spot in the V5.

Sincerely,
Associate cut from your fine cloth now at a lowly V25 that will most certainly match whatever scale you put out.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

[TigerIsBack]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

This. Please someone at these firms confirm you're equally in the dark as the rest of us.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

I am in several group chats with several DPW associates -- I have no doubt that I'll learn about it in several group chats at once when DPW announces, so I am pretty confident that nothing has gone out yet at DPW.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

Confirmed - an equally paranoid STB associate.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

At Milbank. Nothing yet.

[fluctuatnecmergitur]

I think this may be part of DPW/Milbank's strategy, to really shine a light on the shift and by delaying they give less time for other firms to act, which means they might match DPW/Milbank very quickly.

This is an interesting take, especially given that payroll at a law firm needs time to sort out who gets what and when. DPW/Milbank may have made the decision already, and just want to force the rest of the field to match CSM so they can come in last minute to top everyone. That is, if they know that they are going to crush the CSM scale, what incentive do they have to announce it early on? Sure, their associates have to be on edge now, but in the end they will all remember that they beat market and not that the announcement was late.

Not really. Firms can always announce a match and just say it will a bit delayed.

[Anonymous User]

What the hell is going on….. we start getting these in like 2 weeks.

[Anonymous User]

You know—i know we all shit talk CSM as not being a market leader anymore based on the last handful of years, but I think we have actual evidence for it now.

The vast majority of other firms are delaying bonus announcements to the point that the ABA journal is copy-pasting from shitty ATL articles talking about how long it’s taking. Why? Because they’re all waiting on DPW/Milbank. 90% of the V100 is crouched, waiting on DPW/Milbank to tell them how high to jump, literally weeks after Cravath shouted their order. That’s a legit shift

Cravath partners everywhere in shambles

Maybe it’s like a check-raise in a poker game. They basically kept the bonus the same, DPW doubles the scale, and Cravath pounces by tripling the scale. No other reasonable explanation exists.

Or, Cravath doesn't give a shit what other firms do and believes they can maintain retention and recruiting based off of perceived prestige alone so long as they're close-enough on comp.

I don't work there but this attitude would not surprise me.

Pretty sure at this point the raise/match delays are due to some internal accounting to confirm how high they can raise while maintaining a desired level of PPP. It's not some sort of absurd psychological warfare, it's just money. The PPEP wars are hotter than they've ever been so the leaders have to manage both associate and equity comp, retention is an issue at both levels.

Edit - if retention/spring bonuses/etc. are also in the mix, then that's factoring in too. Probably a new angle that is jamming up what is a normally straightforward process.

[Anonymous User]

MoFo match of the horrid Cravath scale. Relatedly, senior associate and actively doing in-house interviews and will be jumping this ship at first
offer.

[Anonymous User]

At this point shouldn't we be rooting AGAINST a DPW/Milbank announcement today? If they announce late on Friday, may mean they don't want it to get publicity. If they're gonna pwn CravaTTTh on the other hand, they'll want that to get some press attention, so no reason to announce Friday afternoon.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

At Milbank. Nothing yet.

At DPW, nothing yet.

[Anonymous User]

I think the delay actually might help at this point. Both DPW and Milbank need to announce no matter what in the next week or so, and if they're delaying because they don't want to be outdone by the other, whoever inevitably announces first will hopefully go a notch above to make a splash and be remembered/rewarded accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

I think the delay actually might help at this point. Both DPW and Milbank need to announce no matter what in the next week or so, and if they're delaying because they don't want to be outdone by the other, whoever inevitably announces first will hopefully go a notch above to make a splash and be remembered/rewarded accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

I feel like this isn’t complicated. What was the average time in prior years for firms to announce bonuses following the first firm’s announcement that year end is the same as the prior year? What was the average time to match when retention bonuses were announced? I think I remember seeing a breakdown of this on another thread months ago. Firms that haven’t matched now are, IMHO, clearly considering raising or waiting for a peer to, or they would have just matched already. To me, the silence means they’re not sold the new scale holds and it will increase. Not a matter of if, but when.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

Mid-level at DPW. Confirmed. Honestly all morning has been us bitching to each other about Neil's fucking troll email

[tsk222]

I feel like this isn’t complicated. What was the average time in prior years for firms to announce bonuses following the first firm’s announcement that year end is the same as the prior year? What was the average time to match when retention bonuses were announced? I think I remember seeing a breakdown of this on another thread months ago. Firms that haven’t matched now are, IMHO, clearly considering raising or waiting for a peer to, or they would have just matched already. To me, the silence means they’re not sold the new scale holds and it will increase. Not a matter of if, but when.

I wonder if it's possible that one or more of these places was planning a massive increase (double the scale or whatever), but got a little bit spooked by the variant and are trying to hold off an announcement until the information there gets a little clearer?

[Anonymous User]

At this point shouldn't we be rooting AGAINST a DPW/Milbank announcement today? If they announce late on Friday, may mean they don't want it to get publicity. If they're gonna pwn CravaTTTh on the other hand, they'll want that to get some press attention, so no reason to announce Friday afternoon.

That's unfortunately a good point.

[Anonymous User]

Are there any DPW/Milbank/STB assocs that can confirm their firms haven’t announced/heard anything? Getting paranoid that they are going away from traditional announcements

Mid-level at DPW. Confirmed. Honestly all morning has been us bitching to each other about Neil's fucking troll email

What was the troll email?