Moving In-house: How to graciously ask about lifestyle + leverage year end bonus Forum

[Anonymous User]

2 quick questions - would love to hear what TLS has to say. For context, interviewing at a few places for corporate counsel positions.

1) How do you phrase the question about lifestyle? Don't want to appear lazy, but obviously want to make sure I'm not going to some sort of inhouse meat grinder that is marginally better than biglaw but with a big pay cut. I want a normal-ish job!

2) Anyone who has moved before bonus time, have you been successful in using the awkward timing to get a better deal? I'm ready to GTFO regardless of year end bonus (year end this year going to be a nightmare). The places I'm considering need someone now, and I'm curious if could walk the line of "could we start in Jan 2022 because of bonus? No? Can you give me a year end bonus then?"

[bwh8813]

2 quick questions - would love to hear what TLS has to say. For context, interviewing at a few places for corporate counsel positions.

1) How do you phrase the question about lifestyle? Don't want to appear lazy, but obviously want to make sure I'm not going to some sort of inhouse meat grinder that is marginally better than biglaw but with a big pay cut. I want a normal-ish job!

2) Anyone who has moved before bonus time, have you been successful in using the awkward timing to get a better deal? I'm ready to GTFO regardless of year end bonus (year end this year going to be a nightmare). The places I'm considering need someone now, and I'm curious if could walk the line of "could we start in Jan 2022 because of bonus? No? Can you give me a year end bonus then?"

On point 1, I'd just ask about what a typical day/week looks like for the interviewer. Once you have an offer, you could ask to meet with another attorney at your level or similar and have a more casual conversation.

On point 2, are you using a recruiter? If so, it's easier if they have that conversation. Otherwise, I think any company that hires out of big law regularly knows the comp scale/structure and should be open and used to that conversation, especially at this time of year. It sounds like you'd prefer to start ASAP and them guarantee your bonus so you should try to steer the conversation that way along the lines of, "I know you need help ASAP, and I'm eager to get started, but financially it wouldn't make sense to leave my year-end bonus on the table at this time of the year. Is that something the company would be willing to include?"

[Elston Gunn]

Agree with both of the above. On 1, you’ll probably have a decent sense from the interviews without really asking too directly. (IME this isn’t something they want to hide from you, though if anything people may exaggerate how much work it is to try to weed out applicants who are just trying to chill.) But if you don’t, you should have a bunch of people offering to chat post-offer, and that’s an easier time to get more detail.

On 2, the above is the way to do it. Though, fair warning, IMO you’re more likely to be told, “Well, we would love to have you start right away, but we understand if you need to wait until January,” than actually be offered anything close to a full year end bonus. Maybe if it’s a financial institution or something else with a ton of cash they would, but then I’d generally expect those places to have longer hours as well.

[mardash]

I would make sure you have an offer in hand before you bring this up. Depending on the size of the company and how much the paycut is going to be from big law, they might take you expecting to be made whole on the bonus to be a sign you’re a flight risk.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - lots of great advice ITT. Thank you all very much.

[Anonymous User]

OP w/ another question. I've been getting a number of interviews at public shops where there is a securities/34 act component. I'm M&A and don't have capM experience other than what I got as a junior - but as a junior I did enough securities work to be fairly confident I could pick up the 34 act reporting stuff very quickly. For equity/debt offerings, I'm not so cocky/naive to think I wouldn't need some outside help there.

How would you spin the lack of experience while also knowing you could pick it up relatively seamlessly?

[1styearlateral]

I think you just did. Just explain that you have some familiarity and are quick on the uptake/are not intimidated by navigating uncharted waters or learning new things.

Not sure what type of company you would be joining, but the majority of in-house roles require you to be a jack-of-all-trades type. In those roles, no one is expected to have mastered, or even have years of substantive experience in, all areas of law. You have to be smart enough to know what you don't know but know how to go find the answer. For example, while you will be corporate counsel, if your company doesn't have an L&E attorney, you can be sure you'll be getting asked employment law questions.

[lolwutpar]

I think the advice is covered re: bonus, but my experience was that they did offer a modest signing bonus but were generally not really interested in entertaining the fact I was walking away from the retention bonus. However, most big pubcos will true you up if you're walking away from RSUs that are about to vest (assuming you're moving in-house to in-house). So, future reference for negotiation but my experience was that they do not care about cash bonuses.