Planning Out Parental Leave Forum

[Anonymous User]

My biglaw firm has "primary" and "secondary" caregiver leave for parents following a birth/adoption, with the primary caregiver leave getting 18 weeks and the secondary caregiver getting 4 weeks, all paid. I assume all the other firms have a pretty similar setup. I have only ever seen women take the primary caregiver leave, and men take the secondary caregiver leave. Obviously women actually endure pregnancy and childbirth, and I'm not trying to make a social or political statement, but just as an empirical reality I've never seen a father take extended parental leave.

I was part of a conversation where an associate casually asked what the rules are for determining primary vs. secondary caregiver status, and a partner said "you just tell us, there is no checking or analysis or anything."

My partner and I are thinking through having our first child. Because this is America, she happens to have a very ungenerous maternity leave policy at her job and I have this generous leave policy at mine. As a hopeful father I'd definitely rather take that 18 week leave. Has anyone actually seen a new dad do something like this?

The one other thing in my favor is that I'm a midlevel who plans to exit biglaw and have already been eyeing escape options. I'd expect to be out of biglaw in the next year, but now I'm wondering if it makes more sense to stick it out, take that primary caregiver leave, and then find something new while on leave/shortly after the leave is over. I know all the firms talk a big game about supporting parents, and they say taking leave won't affect your career trajectory or how you're perceived for promotion purposes, but I tend to think if a father took the extended leave it absolutely would be held against him internally ("this guy lacks commitment to the firm and is taking advantage of the system!"), but I'm not planning to stick around long-term anyway.

Has anyone done or seen someone do what I'm describing?

[LawMaster97]

I haven’t seen this personally, but my firm gives an equal amount to men and women and got rid of the primary / secondary designations. I would suggest reaching out to the HR department to explore the possibility of taking the 18 week leave. More firms are moving towards equalizing leave for men and women, so the policy might be different by the time that you take leave. I did something similar and stuck around to take advantage of my firm’s generous leave policy. It works well as a retention tool, so I’m surprised that more firms don’t have more generous policies.

[Anonymous User]

I haven’t seen this personally, but my firm gives an equal amount to men and women and got rid of the primary / secondary designations. I would suggest reaching out to the HR department to explore the possibility of taking the 18 week leave. More firms are moving towards equalizing leave for men and women, so the policy might be different by the time that you take leave. I did something similar and stuck around to take advantage of my firm’s generous leave policy. It works well as a retention tool, so I’m surprised that more firms don’t have more generous policies.

OP here. That's a good point. I was looking at the parental leave policy strictly as a self-interested question of money/benefits for me and the family, but it's true regarding retention. If my firm guaranteed that I could take the extended leave then the chances that I would quit within the next year would go way down (i.e. I'd stick around for the 18 weeks benefit, but not for the 4). As a retention matter, it should be easy math for them, but maybe I'm missing some part of how they view it.

[Wanderingdrock]

My biglaw firm has "primary" and "secondary" caregiver leave for parents following a birth/adoption, with the primary caregiver leave getting 18 weeks and the secondary caregiver getting 4 weeks, all paid. I assume all the other firms have a pretty similar setup. I have only ever seen women take the primary caregiver leave, and men take the secondary caregiver leave. Obviously women actually endure pregnancy and childbirth, and I'm not trying to make a social or political statement, but just as an empirical reality I've never seen a father take extended parental leave.

I was part of a conversation where an associate casually asked what the rules are for determining primary vs. secondary caregiver status, and a partner said "you just tell us, there is no checking or analysis or anything."

My partner and I are thinking through having our first child. Because this is America, she happens to have a very ungenerous maternity leave policy at her job and I have this generous leave policy at mine. As a hopeful father I'd definitely rather take that 18 week leave. Has anyone actually seen a new dad do something like this?

The one other thing in my favor is that I'm a midlevel who plans to exit biglaw and have already been eyeing escape options. I'd expect to be out of biglaw in the next year, but now I'm wondering if it makes more sense to stick it out, take that primary caregiver leave, and then find something new while on leave/shortly after the leave is over. I know all the firms talk a big game about supporting parents, and they say taking leave won't affect your career trajectory or how you're perceived for promotion purposes, but I tend to think if a father took the extended leave it absolutely would be held against him internally ("this guy lacks commitment to the firm and is taking advantage of the system!"), but I'm not planning to stick around long-term anyway.

Has anyone done or seen someone do what I'm describing?

I bolded the part of what you said that makes me think you have a good and honest case for why you would be, at least temporarily, the "primary" caregiver. But also, I'm at a firm that gives 14 weeks of paid "bonding" leave (aka parental leave) to everyone including adoptive parents, plus 8 weeks of paid recovery time if you're the birthing parent. If you think your firm might realistically expect you to take only 4 weeks of paid leave after your child is born, eff them and start applying elsewhere. The market supports more generous parental leave policies.

[Anonymous User]

Have not seen this but I would absolutely do it, no questions asked if you were thinking of leaving anyways. I might be a little more hesitant if you wanted to stick it out at the firm, but even then you will not regret those extra weeks with your baby, especially if you are confident you can get another position.

[Anonymous User]

I've seen a male colleague do this at my firm for the exact reason OP mentioned.

[Anonymous User]

My firm has almost the exact policy, and we've had a few men who have taken it the full 18 weeks (particularly when their partners have significantly less time off). When the policy is written this way (non-gendered, no relationship to medical needs etc.), HR should give you the full leave if you ask for it. If there's any pushback, tell them to talk to one of the employment lawyers at the firm. Like others have said, if you were thinking about staying at the firm long term, the reality is that some folks will not respond positively to any associate taking parental leave, let alone a father taking 18 weeks of leave, but if you're not planning on staying it shouldn't matter much. It may burn some people if you leave at the end of it, but folks do that all the time, just make sure you have a couple of individuals who will provide a good reference if you need them a few years down the line.

[Anonymous User]

I think I can weigh in here! I am a dad & 6th year finance associate whose firm has the exact same parental leave policy as OP.

We had a kid in June and my wife doesn’t work. Happy to report I just came back from 13 weeks of my leave from early June through Labor Day. I am back for a few months and then going back on leave from November 15 to January 15 so I don’t have to work during the holidays

My firm (partners and HR) have been super supportive and could care less that my wife doesn’t work etc. However definitely want to leave biglaw when I come back from leave in January because this job is bad for hanging out with my kid.

[Anonymous User]

I think I can weigh in here! I am a dad & 6th year finance associate whose firm has the exact same parental leave policy as OP.

We had a kid in June and my wife doesn’t work. Happy to report I just came back from 13 weeks of my leave from early June through Labor Day. I am back for a few months and then going back on leave from November 15 to January 15 so I don’t have to work during the holidays

My firm (partners and HR) have been super supportive and could care less that my wife doesn’t work etc. However definitely want to leave biglaw when I come back from leave in January because this job is bad for hanging out with my kid.

As a fellow father, this is precisely how I would love to exit BigLaw. Kudos to you, sir.

[Anonymous User]

I'm at a firm that gives 12 weeks (no differentiation between primary or secondary caregiver or anything). Just some anecdata, but I've heard of multiple associates that are dads taking the full time (and as far as I can tell neither have intentions of leaving the firm). I've also heard certain partners make off hand comments about the amount of paternity leave people take, so the negative perception is still out there.

That said, I'm probably going to take my full 12 weeks (or close to it) because I also want to do my part in normalizing dads taking their full leave.

[Anonymous User]

I've also heard certain partners make off hand comments about the amount of paternity leave people take, so the negative perception is still out there.

Imagine being pissed because parents want to spend time with their babies. Is this a generational thing? Do partners not care about their families? Do they all come from religious or cultural traditions that praise family neglect and absenteeism? I am so confused.

[nixy]

I mean, that’s what the mom is for. /s

[Anonymous User]

I've also heard certain partners make off hand comments about the amount of paternity leave people take, so the negative perception is still out there.

Imagine being pissed because parents want to spend time with their babies. Is this a generational thing? Do partners not care about their families? Do they all come from religious or cultural traditions that praise family neglect and absenteeism? I am so confused.

Partly generational thing, until fairly recently paternity leave wasn't a thing, and many jobs still have very lousy parental leave policies. My pre law job I didn't get any paid leave. I took a few days PTO and that was it. My wife had to take unpaid leave. It's also not exactly standard in many places to take a full 12 weeks, even for the mother, let alone 14 or 18. Not saying it's right, just facts. It's not surprising that a job with poor work life balance in general isn't understanding of taking leave (tho it is a pleasant surprise that on paper the policies are so generous).

[Anonymous User]

My firm gives a very generous six months to both parents and I have seen multiple senior associates (men) take the full time without an apparent blow to partnership chances. I have not seen male partners do so, but I’m sure it’s happened.

[RecruiterMan]

Take all the parental leave you can get and then just GTFO not long thereafter, if that's what you're already planning to do. It'll be worth it.

-a new dad who just did this exact thing

[Anonymous User]

This might not be the right audience to ask, but anyone have any tips on navigating leave at the senior associate/junior partner level? I'm facing this right now, and my concern is not so much the hours/leave policy, but more navigating coverage for all my litigation teams when I am out. It's a bit different being in a supervisory role, you are harder to replace even temporarily.

I think I've got some good guidance internally in my firm on how to handle this already, but I figured this would be a decent thread to float that question as well for additional advice.

[Anonymous User]

This might not be the right audience to ask, but anyone have any tips on navigating leave at the senior associate/junior partner level? I'm facing this right now, and my concern is not so much the hours/leave policy, but more navigating coverage for all my litigation teams when I am out. It's a bit different being in a supervisory role, you are harder to replace even temporarily.

I think I've got some good guidance internally in my firm on how to handle this already, but I figured this would be a decent thread to float that question as well for additional advice.

Not personal experience because I had my kids earlier in my career, but from friends who are on the timeline you describe, the details seem very firm and practice group dependent. The good news is you will likely have 6 months to prepare everyone, which should be sufficient runway for almost any imaginable litigation. Only note of caution is not to mention until you or your partner are past the first trimester because things often don’t work out right away and I’ve been told it’s better to present your pending absence as a fait accompli than as a hypothetical.

[Anonymous User]

This might not be the right audience to ask, but anyone have any tips on navigating leave at the senior associate/junior partner level? I'm facing this right now, and my concern is not so much the hours/leave policy, but more navigating coverage for all my litigation teams when I am out. It's a bit different being in a supervisory role, you are harder to replace even temporarily.

I think I've got some good guidance internally in my firm on how to handle this already, but I figured this would be a decent thread to float that question as well for additional advice.

Not personal experience because I had my kids earlier in my career, but from friends who are on the timeline you describe, the details seem very firm and practice group dependent. The good news is you will likely have 6 months to prepare everyone, which should be sufficient runway for almost any imaginable litigation. Only note of caution is not to mention until you or your partner are past the first trimester because things often don’t work out right away and I’ve been told it’s better to present your pending absence as a fait accompli than as a hypothetical.

Just adding an anecdote here, I've worked with a senior associate and a junior partner who took extended parental leave when we were on several active matters together. In both cases the stopgap replacement was CC-ed on much more in the weeks leading up to the due date, which in both cases happened to be near the actual delivery date, and there was an adjustment period when the replacement got up to speed and situated in the deals, but it was pretty smooth sailing pretty quickly.

[Anonymous User]

This one is going to be a doozy.

So Jones Day actually got sued for a parental leave policy that is pretty similar to your firm's. Basically gender discrimination against fathers. https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... -jones-day

The firm I was at as a junior a couple years back had a policy that is identical to yours and after seeing the JD lawsuit VERY quickly changed to a neutral policy that allowed any new parent (adoptive, biological or otherwise) 14 weeks. I've had multiple friends very substantially affected by these policies.

First, a guy had just finished his allotted 'secondary caregiver' 4 weeks when they changed the policy. He wondered if he could get 14 (so 10 additional) weeks under the new policy and they said no, it wasn't retroactive. So then he wondered if he could get additional weeks as a primary caregiver (his wife was a doctor or IB or something just as busy as our jobs). They said (paraphrasing) "technically by law we can't tell you that you can't be primary caregiver" so he took some extra time (but not all he was allotted). His practice group was super pissed and they pushed him out of the firm almost immediately when he got back, even though he had good reviews and was well liked.

Second, a guy had a kid and took the 4 weeks when that was the "secondary caregiver" policy. People found that to be reasonable and expected, it was no problem. Then about a year and a half later, right when the policy was changed, he had another kid, and took the full 14 weeks. I'm not sure what happened to him but last I heard, he was being taken off of quality workstreams and basically was pushed out for "being behind" his peer associates.

Let me know if you have any questions. I left that firm for obvious reasons.

[TigerIsBack]

This one is going to be a doozy.

So Jones Day actually got sued for a parental leave policy that is pretty similar to your firm's. Basically gender discrimination against fathers. https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... -jones-day

The firm I was at as a junior a couple years back had a policy that is identical to yours and after seeing the JD lawsuit VERY quickly changed to a neutral policy that allowed any new parent (adoptive, biological or otherwise) 14 weeks. I've had multiple friends very substantially affected by these policies.

First, a guy had just finished his allotted 'secondary caregiver' 4 weeks when they changed the policy. He wondered if he could get 14 (so 10 additional) weeks under the new policy and they said no, it wasn't retroactive. So then he wondered if he could get additional weeks as a primary caregiver (his wife was a doctor or IB or something just as busy as our jobs). They said (paraphrasing) "technically by law we can't tell you that you can't be primary caregiver" so he took some extra time (but not all he was allotted). His practice group was super pissed and they pushed him out of the firm almost immediately when he got back, even though he had good reviews and was well liked.

Second, a guy had a kid and took the 4 weeks when that was the "secondary caregiver" policy. People found that to be reasonable and expected, it was no problem. Then about a year and a half later, right when the policy was changed, he had another kid, and took the full 14 weeks. I'm not sure what happened to him but last I heard, he was being taken off of quality workstreams and basically was pushed out for "being behind" his peer associates.

Let me know if you have any questions. I left that firm for obvious reasons.

I have a question. What's the firm? They deserve to be outed.

[Anonymous User]

I decided not to name the firm since I gave pretty detailed stories. I don't want to violate the privacy of these people who didn't do anything wrong.

The only thing I'll say is that it's a v15 firm

[Anonymous User]

My previous firm had a gender-neutral primary/secondary leave policy and I took leave as the primary caregiver without much of an issue. HR asked me my basis for claiming primary caregiver status, and I responded (truthfully) that my wife didn't have paid leave so it made sense for me to take 18 weeks paid. They didn't ask me any further questions. My guess is that most firms don't ask any questions of women taking primary caregiver leave, so they shouldn't be scrutinizing requests by men.

Some partners were pissed but you can't worry about what they think--being a parent is much more important. That said, when clients emailed me directly during leave I continued to do work for them (maybe ~25 hours/month), since I didn't want to risk losing those relationships.