I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding Forum

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:49 pm

I’m guessing it means he makes juniors do diligence summaries and then he “reviews” their diligence and just bills a couple hours

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm

It’s clearly possible. I billed roughly 3,500 hours in an underwater group twice in consecutive years. Before you say I’m lying, what incentive would I have to pad from 3,000 to 3,500? It was legitimate.

Was it worth it? Not at all. I lost my fiancée as a direct result and my physical and mental health are still recovering a couple years later. And to top it off I’m not even at the same fucking firm anymore. Biggest regret of my life

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Definitely Not North

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Definitely Not North » Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
I lost my fiancée as a direct result
fuck, that's rough

PatrickH45

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by PatrickH45 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 8:13 pm

It's definitely possible. Is it common? No - I'd bet the vast majority of biglaw associates and partners never come even close to 3,000 billables in a single year.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:58 pm

I work with a lit partner who bills 3,300 a year. I know for a fact he works every single minute of it. Thankfully he doesn’t expect the same from me.

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Anonymous User
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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Sep 13, 2021 11:54 pm

You know for a fact? You sit there with the stopwatch?

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whats an updog

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by whats an updog » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 am

if someone told me they were padding 3000, i would wonder why, but i would still think much better of them than someone who told me earnestly (or god forbid, proudly) that they had billed 3000

NoLongerALurker

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by NoLongerALurker » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:23 am

Guys -- $3,000 hours. Maybe OP is just saying that all super-senior elder-statesmen partners are notorious padders. This is all just a misunderstanding.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:11 am

whats an updog wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 am
if someone told me they were padding 3000, i would wonder why, but i would still think much better of them than someone who told me earnestly (or god forbid, proudly) that they had billed 3000
Some firms (looking at you K&E) tie your bonus to hours billed, with no cap. So more hours, more bonus. There is a literal incentive at these firms to pad. Again, this may be K&E specific but I have heard of such structures elsewhere too (maybe Quinn?).

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:51 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 10:11 am
whats an updog wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:37 am
if someone told me they were padding 3000, i would wonder why, but i would still think much better of them than someone who told me earnestly (or god forbid, proudly) that they had billed 3000
Some firms (looking at you K&E) tie your bonus to hours billed, with no cap. So more hours, more bonus. There is a literal incentive at these firms to pad. Again, this may be K&E specific but I have heard of such structures elsewhere too (maybe Quinn?).
Think last year is the first year K&E took off cap on their bonus metrics. But the monetary difference in bonus between someone who bills 3000 vs 2400 is not going to be worth the risk of padding.

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androstan

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by androstan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 12:57 pm

OP is trolling. TT is sad.

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blair.waldorf

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by blair.waldorf » Tue Sep 14, 2021 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
It’s clearly possible. I billed roughly 3,500 hours in an underwater group twice in consecutive years. Before you say I’m lying, what incentive would I have to pad from 3,000 to 3,500? It was legitimate.

Was it worth it? Not at all. I lost my fiancée as a direct result and my physical and mental health are still recovering a couple years later. And to top it off I’m not even at the same fucking firm anymore. Biggest regret of my life
This is just sad.

People, there is more to life than work. It is not worth it. You do not need to bill 3,500 hours. Plenty of market paying firms will be thrilled if you bill 2,000.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
I lost my fiancée as a direct result.
Not to pick at scabs, but did the breakup come out of the blue? If not, did you just feel trapped at work and unable to scale back? Did you just value your career over your relationship at the time?

I know people who have also had broken engagements in IBanking, but it all feels surreal to me, like when bankers half-laugh about missing their children's births because of work.

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inter-associate

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by inter-associate » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:27 pm

Dumbest thread I've read in a long time, and that's saying something. The number of things you don't believe that are true is likely beyond your ability to comprehend, but this should not be one of them if you have experienced transactional work at top firm in 2020-2021. It is absolutely brutal and makes pre-COVID biglaw seem like a walk in the park. Only responding to this flame because most of us would gladly trade our hours for a better life, but that has not been an option.

Side note to OP - fix your message title. Billing rates are high but have not yet hit $3000 as far I as know.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by BenJ » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Sep 12, 2021 12:21 am
BenJ wrote:
Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:23 pm
But everyone's realization rates are basically exactly the same anyway, at least in my practice.
Tangent I know but what is typical realization rate and how much does it actually matter?
I wanted to acknowledge that I saw this question. Firms view realization rates as very proprietary, so I don't feel comfortable sharing a typical realization rate at my firm, but I will repeat that variation among attorneys seems largely random and very small (like a range of just a 2-4 percent one way or the other), with realization rates seeming to have no correlation with either seniority or perception of quality of attorney.

Realization rates don't matter at all for advancement at my firm, and no one ever really talks about them, although they are there in our billing system if you have access and are looking at it.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by 12YrsAnAssociate » Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:41 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
It’s clearly possible. I billed roughly 3,500 hours in an underwater group twice in consecutive years. Before you say I’m lying, what incentive would I have to pad from 3,000 to 3,500? It was legitimate.

Was it worth it? Not at all. I lost my fiancée as a direct result and my physical and mental health are still recovering a couple years later. And to top it off I’m not even at the same fucking firm anymore. Biggest regret of my life
If I could go back and tell young lawyer me anything it's this. I skipped so much shit because of work. I worked on a drive to my grandma's house because a partner told me he absolutely needed the draft the day after Thanksgiving. I skipped vacations. I worked Christmas day. I went to work the day after my son was born. All of it was 100% stupid as fuck. I don't work at the same firm, I don't remember the cases I thought were important, the partners that ruined my plans don't remember my sacrifice (and maybe don't even remember my name), and the client probably didn't know my name in the first place. What the fuck was I doing?

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androstan

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by androstan » Tue Sep 14, 2021 4:00 pm

12YrsAnAssociate wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 3:41 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
It’s clearly possible. I billed roughly 3,500 hours in an underwater group twice in consecutive years. Before you say I’m lying, what incentive would I have to pad from 3,000 to 3,500? It was legitimate.

Was it worth it? Not at all. I lost my fiancée as a direct result and my physical and mental health are still recovering a couple years later. And to top it off I’m not even at the same fucking firm anymore. Biggest regret of my life
If I could go back and tell young lawyer me anything it's this. I skipped so much shit because of work. I worked on a drive to my grandma's house because a partner told me he absolutely needed the draft the day after Thanksgiving. I skipped vacations. I worked Christmas day. I went to work the day after my son was born. All of it was 100% stupid as fuck. I don't work at the same firm, I don't remember the cases I thought were important, the partners that ruined my plans don't remember my sacrifice (and maybe don't even remember my name), and the client probably didn't know my name in the first place. What the fuck was I doing?
100% cosign. I had this unhealthy attitude my first few years of practice, and it took a toll on my marriage. You do not have to operate this way and risk destroying your personal life to succeed. I started drawing strict boundaries around work time and personal time about three years ago and yet here I still am. My daughter was born July 2019. I took the full 12 weeks paternity leave and did not answer an email that entire time. I tell partners that I will be on vacation X days. One partner didn't respect vacation and I don't work with that partner anymore. Sometimes there is a real emergency, and maybe it takes a few years of work experience and reflection to understand when some sacrifice is appropriate, but the sooner that is understood the better. There are some partners who treat everything as an emergency even when it's not and will make your life a living hell. There are others who respect your time. Do great work so you can afford to choose between the two.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 14, 2021 2:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 13, 2021 6:05 pm
I lost my fiancée as a direct result.
Not to pick at scabs, but did the breakup come out of the blue? If not, did you just feel trapped at work and unable to scale back? Did you just value your career over your relationship at the time?

I know people who have also had broken engagements in IBanking, but it all feels surreal to me, like when bankers half-laugh about missing their children's births because of work.
No it wasn’t out of the blue. There’s only so long you can blow off someone that loves and supports you night after night and weekend after weekend for psychopathic partners and seniors that barely give a fuck if you live or die before the former realizes that you’re a lost cause. Looking back, I can only chalk it up to my being brainwashed and/or incredibly shortsighted

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by blahblahxyz » Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 am

I seriously wish someone would do a Netflix special on a year in the life of an associate who bills 3,000 hours. I'm not kidding I'd spend two hours watching that. I really can't imagine working intensely enough to bill $700/hour seven days a week, pretty much all day.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:13 am

Good for you. You’ve never billed a 3000 year. I’ll tell you a secret: when you bill a 3000 hr year, you actually work closer to 3,250. Time gets lost when you’re that busy, not “found”. You don’t “pad;” to the contrary, you don’t bill everything.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by LittleRedCorvette » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:09 pm

blahblahxyz wrote:
Wed Sep 15, 2021 4:05 am
I seriously wish someone would do a Netflix special on a year in the life of an associate who bills 3,000 hours. I'm not kidding I'd spend two hours watching that. I really can't imagine working intensely enough to bill $700/hour seven days a week, pretty much all day.
Well it would be boring as fuck. They sit at their computer for 12+ hours a day, more-or-less 7 days a week, for an entire year. Ask me how I know.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Monochromatic Oeuvre » Wed Sep 15, 2021 7:55 pm

I don't believe anyone really plays in the NBA. High school ball, with good defense and efficient scoring, is very hard. If you work every single weekend maybe you can bump that to a D-1 scholarship. But the NBA? I simply don't believe it.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by Hutz_and_Goodman » Thu Sep 16, 2021 9:20 am

I’ve never billed 3,000 hours but can relate to the above discussion regarding work trade offs. When my first child was born I think I took two weeks off work. By the time my second child was born I took the full paternity period. As a junior, I was very willing to sacrifice whatever was needed for the case/client and as a mid level/senior associate I’m equally dedicated but realize that in many cases these type of sacrifices are not necessary—although in some cases they are (eg moving to trial site for weeks without family). I think whether or not you stay with your first firm this job is a marathon not a sprint and imho you do not want to be making sacrifices to the point of harming family/personal relationships.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by randomthrowaway » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:03 am

I don't believe anyone really has a 10 inch dick without padding. A 6 inch dick, with detailed measurements stating exactly the length (i.e., 6 inches that is 95% erect is very hard). If you work it every single weekend maybe you can bump that to 6.5 inches. But 10 inches? I simply don't believe it.

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Re: I don't believe anyone really bills $3,000 hours without padding

Post by mardash » Thu Sep 16, 2021 10:35 am

Comparing billing 3000 hours to having a big dick or playing in the NBA is making me bust a gut, good joke nerds.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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