Will RTO be pushed to January? Forum

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Will return to office be pushed to January (or later)?

Poll ended at Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:09 pm

Yes
82
77%
No
25
23%
 
Total votes: 107

Dahl

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Dahl » Tue Sep 21, 2021 3:44 pm

In the very least, delaying a little longer gives the FDA the time to sort out booster shots.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2021 4:00 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:45 pm
What’s the significance of January in particular, though? Is the idea that a large chunk of people in the right age groups will have received boosters at that point in time? Or come January will we all be worrying about a new set of vax-resistant variants and waning booster efficacy?

If we accept that COVID will become endemic — which I think is the scientific consensus — it then seems like the current rationale for delaying RTO right now (“there’s too much uncertainty; the risk to the vaccinated is low but still non-zero”) proves too much. Since that rationale is really an argument for delaying RTO permanently/indefinitely.

(To be clear, I personally am not against reaching that conclusion but it seems like most law firms wouldn’t like that.)
At my firm the rationale is that kids under 12 still can't be vaccinated but most kids will probably have that option by January (or at least kids 5-12). I think once kids can be vaccinated the push to get back into the office will be a lot stronger. Plus if the October/November dates fall through, no one wants to send people back in the middle of the Thanksgiving-New Year holiday season with all the travel (plus that's the time people are probably most resistant to RTO).

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:36 pm

Covington announced it's fully reopening US offices in October

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm

Have any other firms pushed WFH to 2022?

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Sep 23, 2021 6:59 pm

Just want to get my bonus so I can GTFO

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:56 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Have any other firms pushed WFH to 2022?
WSGR pushed to Feb. 1, 2022.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:52 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:36 pm
Covington announced it's fully reopening US offices in October
What level of "required" are people at Covington looking at? I imagine it's pretty office/practice group dependent, but does "reopening" just mean "you can come in" when people couldn't before, or is it full-on "back in your offices"?

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:17 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Have any other firms pushed WFH to 2022?
Proskauer Chair announced during town hall today that RTO is being delayed until 2022. He did not even attempt to guess at when in 2022 official reopening will happen.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:23 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:56 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Have any other firms pushed WFH to 2022?
WSGR pushed to Feb. 1, 2022.
You’d think at some point they would collectively learn the lesson that putting a specific date on it is silly.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:09 pm

NRF pushed to early 2022…no specific date.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:52 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Sep 22, 2021 2:36 pm
Covington announced it's fully reopening US offices in October
What level of "required" are people at Covington looking at? I imagine it's pretty office/practice group dependent, but does "reopening" just mean "you can come in" when people couldn't before, or is it full-on "back in your offices"?
Fully reopening across all US offices and practice groups as in you have to be back in your offices.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:01 pm

Cleary pushed to Jan 3

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 2:51 pm
STB is going ahead with an October reopening but is “encouraging” coming into the office at least 1-2 days a week. Tbh feels like what’s the point.
That email was a fantastic example of law firms being unwilling or unable to make explicit the policy they know they want, so they try to get it through unwritten and implied pressure. October is still when you're supposed to show up in person, unless you are "uncomfortable" coming into the office, which they would only expect in unusual and compelling circumstances, or whatever the wording was. It's right up there with firms with "unlimited vacation".

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Sep 26, 2021 7:01 pm
Cleary pushed to Jan 3
based

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 28, 2021 9:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:23 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 12:56 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Sep 23, 2021 12:16 pm
Have any other firms pushed WFH to 2022?
WSGR pushed to Feb. 1, 2022.
You’d think at some point they would collectively learn the lesson that putting a specific date on it is silly.
For WSGR at least, the date is just opening the offices with "full amenities" with still no expecations of coming in. Full return to office hasn't been set - and we've been told it'll be a 50/50 expectation firm wide on a long-term going forward basis whenever we do come back.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:43 pm

Bump

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:17 pm

PW is reopening November 1 with an expectation of 3 days per week in the office.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:26 pm

Sidley is reopening Nov. 1 as well, with expectation of spending a majority of days in the office. Probably going to start looking at firms offering permanent fully remote.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:26 pm
Sidley is reopening Nov. 1 as well, with expectation of spending a majority of days in the office. Probably going to start looking at firms offering permanent fully remote.
Ditto. For me, it doesn't even need to be a firm - I'm casting a wide net. Their memo basically read "As of November 1st, we go back to pre-pandemic norms." Even though it said "majority" of time in the office, I did not take that to mean 3 days a week in the office since it also referred to WFH time as based on the "need of our lawyers to work remotely from time to time."

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:13 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:26 pm
Sidley is reopening Nov. 1 as well, with expectation of spending a majority of days in the office. Probably going to start looking at firms offering permanent fully remote.
That's funny -- I'm sure it's coincidence but I saw a recruiter promoting a Sidley litigation position just the other day. From what you say we'll see more soon enough.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:47 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 11:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 3:26 pm
Sidley is reopening Nov. 1 as well, with expectation of spending a majority of days in the office. Probably going to start looking at firms offering permanent fully remote.
Ditto. For me, it doesn't even need to be a firm - I'm casting a wide net. Their memo basically read "As of November 1st, we go back to pre-pandemic norms." Even though it said "majority" of time in the office, I did not take that to mean 3 days a week in the office since it also referred to WFH time as based on the "need of our lawyers to work remotely from time to time."
Actually I read the memo a little differently. What they say is that they request lawyers to spend a majority of otherwise normal work days (non-vacation and non-personal days) in the office. So I think that equates to at least 2.51 days per week in the office (although with the flexibility to do more some weeks and less some weeks since they say a majority on a monthly basis).

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 07, 2021 9:56 am

I relocated early on in the pandemic away from my high COLA area (DC, for what it's worth), but I've been back for months now (my partner needed to be back before law firms started talking about reopening). It just means I was never forced to be local again, so when commuting starts up for even a few days a week, it's doable if annoying for me. How many people are really looking down the barrel of having wildly worse commuting situations than they did pre-pandemic? I do know someone who's literally been skiing and hiking in Utah for the last year plus and just had to come back...

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:48 am

That's what these firms aren't getting - going back is an extreme move, not a conservative one. It will be interesting to see which firms catch on that saving a ton of costs on rent/overhead, and being far more attractive to laterals in this market (not to mention having associates simply bill more hours without having to commute), outweighs the "culture" benefit of forcing a return to office. It's such a boomer mentality to think that associates would prefer any marginal benefit of seeing people face to face in the office over being able to live in lower cost areas, have no commute, and spend more time with family.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:27 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:48 am
That's what these firms aren't getting - going back is an extreme move, not a conservative one. It will be interesting to see which firms catch on that saving a ton of costs on rent/overhead, and being far more attractive to laterals in this market (not to mention having associates simply bill more hours without having to commute), outweighs the "culture" benefit of forcing a return to office. It's such a boomer mentality to think that associates would prefer any marginal benefit of seeing people face to face in the office over being able to live in lower cost areas, have no commute, and spend more time with family.
The counterpoint is that this job is absolutely horrible, especially as a junior, and for some people there were intangible benefits that kept them in the job when they were forced to go into the office (perks, socializing with colleagues, etc).

It’s hard to say whether that outweighs the benefits of never commuting. I think we will see a sharp divide in law firms where certain personalities will gravitate toward firms that emphasize wfh and vice versa.

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Re: Will RTO be pushed to January?

Post by blair.waldorf » Thu Oct 07, 2021 1:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 12:27 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Oct 07, 2021 10:48 am
That's what these firms aren't getting - going back is an extreme move, not a conservative one. It will be interesting to see which firms catch on that saving a ton of costs on rent/overhead, and being far more attractive to laterals in this market (not to mention having associates simply bill more hours without having to commute), outweighs the "culture" benefit of forcing a return to office. It's such a boomer mentality to think that associates would prefer any marginal benefit of seeing people face to face in the office over being able to live in lower cost areas, have no commute, and spend more time with family.
The counterpoint is that this job is absolutely horrible, especially as a junior, and for some people there were intangible benefits that kept them in the job when they were forced to go into the office (perks, socializing with colleagues, etc).

It’s hard to say whether that outweighs the benefits of never commuting. I think we will see a sharp divide in law firms where certain personalities will gravitate toward firms that emphasize wfh and vice versa.
It doesn't have to be all or nothing. I would be more than fine with going in say, twice per week. I could still live further out in the suburbs (since I'm only commuting twice a week), I would save a lot of time, and I could spend more time with my family. The firms trying to force a full return are incredibly stupid given how hot the lateral market is. I can't imagine they'll be able to retain people. Or people just won't comply because they know they have leverage in this market.

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