Have you ever heard of someone having their SA offer rescinded? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Is this a thing? Grades? Criminal conviction? Getting plastered at the offer dinner?

[hdr]

As long as you don't get arrested, don't make any bad social media posts that go viral, and don't earn a 2.0 GPA as a 2L, you have nothing to worry about. And even if your grades plummet there's a good chance your firm won't ask for an updated transcript.

[whats an updog]

I know of a summer who was no offered for just generally being a jerk and always giving people the run around for work product / acting like he was too good for it.

[Anonymous User]

I know of a summer who was no offered for just generally being a jerk and always giving people the run around for work product / acting like he was too good for it.

Pfft. How foolish.

[Tribble_47]

There was a thread a few years ago about a summer being no-offered for getting so drunk at an event that the female program coordinator had to escort him back to his hotel room, at which point he attempted to force her into the room with him. So ... don't do that.

[Anonymous User]

A summer associate at my firm had their full-time return offer rescinded because they went out to dinner with a few associates in the fall (after they finished the summer program), got wasted, and punched an associate in the face.

[Anonymous User]

There was a thread a few years ago about a summer being no-offered for getting so drunk at an event that the female program coordinator had to escort him back to his hotel room, at which point he attempted to force her into the room with him. So ... don't do that.

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[Anonymous User]

A summer associate at my firm had their full-time return offer rescinded because they went out to dinner with a few associates in the fall (after they finished the summer program), got wasted, and punched an associate in the face.

Was the face punch warranted? Surely there’s more to the story

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

If this is the same one from my V5, they were explicitly no offered

[Anonymous User]

What’s a cold offer?

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

If this is the same one from my V5, they were explicitly no offered

Oof. If that person truly was no offered, guess we’ll eventually find out which V5 when the NALP data comes out.

[Anonymous User]

What’s a cold offer?

The SA is given an "official offer," but the firm will strongly "encourage" the person to seek another position. This allows the firm to keep an official 100% offer rate while the SA will not have to disclose a lack of a return offer, something that amounts to a scarlet letter for 3L recruiting.

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

If this is the same one from my V5, they were explicitly no offered

I think we're talking about the same person. What was the reason? I only heard that the person took on too much work and failed to get it done...Is that enough to get explicitly no offered??

[Anonymous User]

bump

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

If this is the same one from my V5, they were explicitly no offered

I think we're talking about the same person. What was the reason? I only heard that the person took on too much work and failed to get it done...Is that enough to get explicitly no offered??

Follow up?

[nealric]

There were a small number of firms that outright cancelled their summer programs for 2009, and most shortened their summers from 12 weeks to 8.

Firms were still hiring like crazy during 2007 OCI, so the 2008 summer programs were bloated. Things were starting to look shaky during 2008 OCI, but the bottom didn't drop out of the economy until after offers had been made. A few firms (mostly lower ranked) were staring into the abyss come January 2009 and decided to pull the plug, a few others just no offered the whole summer class. Larger numbers no-offered a substantial fraction of the class (50% or more).

However, that was the product not only of an unusual economy, but extremely bad timing. If Lehman had collapsed and the stock market crashed in the summer, firms would have cancelled the summer program before making offers.

[Anonymous User]

I heard that one SA at a V5 was no offered this past summer but it is unclear why

Also heard that an SA in a smaller market was no offered after being coked out at an event held at a partner’s house and hitting on said partner’s wife

This SA was from a NY based law school at that V5. They were cold offered

If this is the same one from my V5, they were explicitly no offered

I think we're talking about the same person. What was the reason? I only heard that the person took on too much work and failed to get it done...Is that enough to get explicitly no offered??

Follow up?

My understanding it was the opposite - they didn’t ask for or do any work. Heard it was a cold offer though.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard differing stories about this person and given WFH it’s a more difficult than usual to determine the exact cause. However, while maybe something was signaled that this was a cold offer instead of a no offer, in all respects it was at least effectively a no offer.

While cold offers are unfortunate in their own respects, it is just the firm telling you that you should look elsewhere and that you may not have a long term career here. People have in fact accepted cold offers without much effect in the end though most take the hint and look elsewhere.

My understanding is that there was ultimately no offer for this summer to accept and they were not invited to the end of summer events / offer party. Maybe the firm is allowing her to tell other employees that she received an offer for employment prospects and the firm will not have to disclose it as a no offer on NALP. Given the extreme hesitation of firms to disclose any no-offers, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the ultimate outcome given the mutual benefit. However, this would ultimately fall somewhere in the middle between a cold and no offer.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard differing stories about this person and given WFH it’s a more difficult than usual to determine the exact cause. However, while maybe something was signaled that this was a cold offer instead of a no offer, in all respects it was at least effectively a no offer.

While cold offers are unfortunate in their own respects, it is just the firm telling you that you should look elsewhere and that you may not have a long term career here. People have in fact accepted cold offers without much effect in the end though most take the hint and look elsewhere.

My understanding is that there was ultimately no offer for this summer to accept and they were not invited to the end of summer events / offer party. Maybe the firm is allowing her to tell other employees that she received an offer for employment prospects and the firm will not have to disclose it as a no offer on NALP. Given the extreme hesitation of firms to disclose any no-offers, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the ultimate outcome given the mutual benefit. However, this would ultimately fall somewhere in the middle between a cold and no offer.

Would a firm be required to report as a no-offer someone who was offered a summer position but for whatever reason did not start the summer program? Or would a no-offer only obtain if the SA actually completed the summer program then was not invited back at the end?

[Anonymous User]

I think we're talking about the same person. What was the reason? I only heard that the person took on too much work and failed to get it done...Is that enough to get explicitly no offered??

My understanding it was the opposite - they didn’t ask for or do any work. Heard it was a cold offer though.

How is that even possible? Are there any firms with a totally free market summer program? It seems like this person would have been assigned work at the least. Even then, at most firms, you would literally have to turn nothing in to get no offered.

[Anonymous User]

I think we're talking about the same person. What was the reason? I only heard that the person took on too much work and failed to get it done...Is that enough to get explicitly no offered??

My understanding it was the opposite - they didn’t ask for or do any work. Heard it was a cold offer though.

How is that even possible? Are there any firms with a totally free market summer program? It seems like this person would have been assigned work at the least. Even then, at most firms, you would literally have to turn nothing in to get no offered.

I don’t have any insight into this particular case, but Zoom/remote SA structure made it incredibly easy to fly under the radar. There was definitely a temptation to “do nothing” (or close to it) since it felt like nobody was monitoring you. Perhaps this person got lured into thinking that nobody would notice if they logged off and chilled on their sofa all day.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t have any insight into this particular case, but Zoom/remote SA structure made it incredibly easy to fly under the radar. There was definitely a temptation to “do nothing” (or close to it) since it felt like nobody was monitoring you. Perhaps this person got lured into thinking that nobody would notice if they logged off and chilled on their sofa all day.

I guess their firm didn't have, like, a mid-summer review? I'm just amazed there was no "come to Jesus" moment for them to realize that this wasn't a sustainable approach. Hell, I was more paranoid during my remote summer, because I couldn't see what everyone else was doing and pace myself accordingly.

[Anonymous User]

I’ve heard differing stories about this person and given WFH it’s a more difficult than usual to determine the exact cause. However, while maybe something was signaled that this was a cold offer instead of a no offer, in all respects it was at least effectively a no offer.

While cold offers are unfortunate in their own respects, it is just the firm telling you that you should look elsewhere and that you may not have a long term career here. People have in fact accepted cold offers without much effect in the end though most take the hint and look elsewhere.

My understanding is that there was ultimately no offer for this summer to accept and they were not invited to the end of summer events / offer party. Maybe the firm is allowing her to tell other employees that she received an offer for employment prospects and the firm will not have to disclose it as a no offer on NALP. Given the extreme hesitation of firms to disclose any no-offers, I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the ultimate outcome given the mutual benefit. However, this would ultimately fall somewhere in the middle between a cold and no offer.

Can confirm this person was not invited to the offer party.