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What do you do, or have you done, to give back to society when working Biglaw hours?

I'd like to have a positive impact on the world that is more than paying higher taxes, doing pro bono work, and making donations to charitable organizations. Those things are great (besides the taxes ), but they don't feel particularly substantive. Half the time, I'm focusing on the extra billable hours or tax deduction anyway.

I've thought about Meals on Wheels and other similar volunteering roles, but none of them seem remotely realistic when I am on call 24/7 and have children. I'm also keen to do something substantive (i.e., not embarking on a work tour for a week to some far flung country which is more about tourism and awareness than making a substantial contribution). I'm not ready to hop off the Biglaw backwagon just yet.

I love that you have that mindset, but I am struggling to come up with options. What can giving back look like if you basically admit to having no free time at all? Other than pro bono work, obviously? How much time do you have to contribute? Is it spread over weeks or confined to vacation time?

I think you just have to make a choice between staying in BL and largely restricting charitable activities to goodwill and doing more active work. What is stopping you from quitting BL other than money? If that is the primary factor, then I think you need to resolve the ethical question of not wanting to spend more time helping others because you want to continue to make more money. Only you/your loved ones/your religious community (or equivalent) can help you work through that effectively.

Money (to charitable organizations) is pretty substantive.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:44 pm

What is stopping you from quitting BL other than money? If that is the primary factor, then I think you need to resolve the ethical tension between not wanting to spend more time helping others because you want to continue to make more money.

I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys biglaw work. There is just too much of it. I know of others who have moved into midlaw or gone inhouse, and it didn't seem to resolve their issues at all in terms of stress or workload. So given that law is my only marketable skill, and I have a family to feed, I plan to stay on the bandwagon for the time being.

Also, an additional random thought. One thing I've noticed is a lot of medical doctors seem to set aside a lot of time for charitable work. Not just in terms of their specialty but also chairing organizations, etc. How are they managing this, when it seems close to impossible for us lawyers?

CiscoFlow wrote: ↑

Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:54 pm

I'm one of those weirdos who actually enjoys biglaw work. There is just too much of it. I know of others who have moved into midlaw or gone inhouse, and it didn't seem to resolve their issues at all in terms of stress or workload. So given that law is my only marketable skill, and I have a family to feed, I plan to stay on the bandwagon for the time being.

That makes perfect sense, although I would not write off moving out of BL (or law altogether)--you may find something that fits. BL attorneys move into everything from politics to professional baking to writing.

Also, an additional random thought. One thing I've noticed is a lot of medical doctors seem to set aside a lot of time for charitable work. Not just in terms of their specialty but also chairing organizations, etc. How are they managing this, when it seems close to impossible for us lawyers?

Because medical doctors often work substantially fewer hours. Source: I know many medical doctors.

Yeah, I don't think most doctors' professional lives are structured at all like lawyers' professional lives. Some, like ER docs, are going to have tough schedules, but I'm not sure they're the ones out heading up charitable orgs.

Pro bono work is a great way to do this (and you can get some hours credited at most firms). Even if you do, like, M&A for your day job, you can work on a brief or represent someone in a landlord-tenant dispute. And as others mentioned, donating money can be just as good (or better) than donating time, and obviously we have lots of money.

I think pro bono work is one of the best ways lawyers can give back, especially if you like law practice.

There are plenty of high-paid professionals who can give to charitable organizations or take on leadership roles (e.g., the doctors you mentioned). But none of those professionals can step into a court and represent a tenant who can’t afford a lawyer other than someone licensed to practice law. Because of our legal system, that’s only something licensed attorneys can do, and our system is unfortunately harsh on pro pers.

Obviously, doing any sort of charitable work is fantastic. But I think doing pro bono work is a way for lawyers to give back unavailable to any other profession.

For me, it’s also holistic. My education, my career, the skill set I’ve developed— all of that makes me uniquely suited to help someone unable to afford an attorney. Helping people going through some of the worst experiences in their lives also engages me as a human being and, I hope, keeps me grounded in reality. All this in a way that serving in other capacities, albeit valuable and worthwhile, just wouldn’t equate to.

Pro bono is a good answer but if you're in biglaw then in my opinion you should strive to do more complex representation than landlord-tenant disputes or no child no property divorces or whatever. If that's what you're doing, then I think you can have a bigger impact by just donating money (and using any extra time to to try to earn more money). People have to remember that the entire annual salary for a legal aid attorney might be like $50-70k.

unlicensedpotato wrote: ↑

Mon Aug 23, 2021 4:02 pm

Pro bono is a good answer but if you're in biglaw then in my opinion you should strive to do more complex representation than landlord-tenant disputes or no child no property divorces or whatever. If that's what you're doing, then I think you can have a bigger impact by just donating money (and using any extra time to to try to earn more money). People have to remember that the entire annual salary for a legal aid attorney might be like $50-70k.

My V10's pro bono coordinator just pitched about a dozen landlord-tenant disputes to the office and basically begged associates to work on them. Lots of skeevy landlords doing no upkeep or pest control since they can't evict anyone for the past year. Plenty of people need help; the point is to do something, you don't need to find your highest and best lawyering use in order to give back to your community.

I give back by telling people not to become lawyers