OK, just how bad is STB M&A? Forum

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Anonymous User
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Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:32 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:29 am
OP here. Appreciate all the input! I ended up choosing Simpson a few weeks ago. Talked with some associates and they echoed what the two people above said - i.e., STB M&A is on par with the other V10 M&A shops with regards to workload - so basically, pretty bad, but not noticeably worse than CSM/S&C/DPW/etc. FWIW, one of them told me about a friend at CSM and how they have just been bleeding corporate associates this past year, especially in M&A after what was apparently a crazy deal timeline with Amazon-MGM and utter lack of empathy from partners. It’s gotten so bad that CSM is rumored to be looking for hiring laterals now?? I think that anecdote was supposed to give me comfort that churn at STB M&A hasn’t been the worst lately lol. I’ve committed now so I guess I’ll just have to wait for next summer to find out 😂
lol.

It's a good thing the STB M&A partners are all super empathetic. And for what it's worth, everyone at CSM who worked on the Amazon-MGM deal (which isn't a lot of people to begin with) is still there... not saying CSM's a great place to work but this whole thread comes off as you trying to justify the preconceptions you already had.

I never said STB partners are super empathetic lol. Just that M&A partners at any top firm in NYC are going to be pretty demanding. And yes, I suppose I am trying to "justify the preconceptions"...of a lot of TLSers who seem to hate on STB M&A. Just doing my due diligence dude (well, I guess it's done now).
As someone who worked in STB M&A for a period and monitored this thread you basically ignored all due diligence. If you are having to ask a question like "just how bad is STB M&A?" that should be enough to not do it. You had other offers, something about STB drew you in (curious what the other offers were or why STB was such a draw despite knowing its horrible) and then you insisted on M&A for, at best, what is a speculative reason for someone not currently employed in big law and knowledgeable about the in-house hiring process.

Eagerly await the STB junior in the M&A department advice on where to lateral thread in a couple years. "Just how bad is K&E M&A?" thread incoming.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428116
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:27 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:32 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:29 am
OP here. Appreciate all the input! I ended up choosing Simpson a few weeks ago. Talked with some associates and they echoed what the two people above said - i.e., STB M&A is on par with the other V10 M&A shops with regards to workload - so basically, pretty bad, but not noticeably worse than CSM/S&C/DPW/etc. FWIW, one of them told me about a friend at CSM and how they have just been bleeding corporate associates this past year, especially in M&A after what was apparently a crazy deal timeline with Amazon-MGM and utter lack of empathy from partners. It’s gotten so bad that CSM is rumored to be looking for hiring laterals now?? I think that anecdote was supposed to give me comfort that churn at STB M&A hasn’t been the worst lately lol. I’ve committed now so I guess I’ll just have to wait for next summer to find out 😂
lol.

It's a good thing the STB M&A partners are all super empathetic. And for what it's worth, everyone at CSM who worked on the Amazon-MGM deal (which isn't a lot of people to begin with) is still there... not saying CSM's a great place to work but this whole thread comes off as you trying to justify the preconceptions you already had.

I never said STB partners are super empathetic lol. Just that M&A partners at any top firm in NYC are going to be pretty demanding. And yes, I suppose I am trying to "justify the preconceptions"...of a lot of TLSers who seem to hate on STB M&A. Just doing my due diligence dude (well, I guess it's done now).
As someone who worked in STB M&A for a period and monitored this thread you basically ignored all due diligence. If you are having to ask a question like "just how bad is STB M&A?" that should be enough to not do it. You had other offers, something about STB drew you in (curious what the other offers were or why STB was such a draw despite knowing its horrible) and then you insisted on M&A for, at best, what is a speculative reason for someone not currently employed in big law and knowledgeable about the in-house hiring process.

Eagerly await the STB junior in the M&A department advice on where to lateral thread in a couple years. "Just how bad is K&E M&A?" thread incoming.

You sound like the same person ITT who seemed utterly unable - or, rather, unwilling - to accept that some [admittedly uninformed] law students, like myself, have a general interest in M&A. Like I said in response to that individual (or maybe it was you), I want to at least try M&A because of the broader array of exit options down the road. That being said, I'm also interested in tax, PE, and capital markets work and STB is pretty strong in all of those practices, so there's your answer for "why STB was such a draw." As for why I asked "just how bad is STB M&A," it's arguably because of individuals on TLS who are rather vocal about how "bad" it is, something I had no idea about until I was weighing offers and poking around on this forum. And why didn't I have any idea about it? Precisely because I had spoken with summers and associates at the firm throughout the OCI process, none of whom expressed the sort of nihilistic opinions about STB M&A that can be found on TLS (granted, it's not like they were all raving about what an amazing place STB is in terms of work-life balance). So, no, even right now, I am NOT going to STB "despite knowing its horrible" - I DON'T know if that is true, based on what I've heard from people who are still there. It might have been horrible for you and the people who left...but I suppose that's why you left. And, in any case, the same question - "how bad is it" - can be asked of CSM, DPW, S&C, Kirkland, etc. M&A, or any other practice area for that matter. It's weird why you think having to ask the question means I should have known to ditch a firm.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428116
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:50 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 11:02 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:32 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:29 am
OP here. Appreciate all the input! I ended up choosing Simpson a few weeks ago. Talked with some associates and they echoed what the two people above said - i.e., STB M&A is on par with the other V10 M&A shops with regards to workload - so basically, pretty bad, but not noticeably worse than CSM/S&C/DPW/etc. FWIW, one of them told me about a friend at CSM and how they have just been bleeding corporate associates this past year, especially in M&A after what was apparently a crazy deal timeline with Amazon-MGM and utter lack of empathy from partners. It’s gotten so bad that CSM is rumored to be looking for hiring laterals now?? I think that anecdote was supposed to give me comfort that churn at STB M&A hasn’t been the worst lately lol. I’ve committed now so I guess I’ll just have to wait for next summer to find out 😂
lol.

It's a good thing the STB M&A partners are all super empathetic. And for what it's worth, everyone at CSM who worked on the Amazon-MGM deal (which isn't a lot of people to begin with) is still there... not saying CSM's a great place to work but this whole thread comes off as you trying to justify the preconceptions you already had.

I never said STB partners are super empathetic lol. Just that M&A partners at any top firm in NYC are going to be pretty demanding. And yes, I suppose I am trying to "justify the preconceptions"...of a lot of TLSers who seem to hate on STB M&A. Just doing my due diligence dude (well, I guess it's done now).
If you want to work at STB, work at STB, no one's opinion here matters, so don't waste everyone's time trying to justify your decision.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428116
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:01 am

Has anyone in this thread actually given a concrete reason why STB M&A is so bad? It seems like a lot of speculation and bashing of STB without any legitimate reasons. Hours can’t be that much worse than the other V10s. Is it just the people? Anecdotally, I’ve met with people from STB before and all seemed to be totally fine and not any different than those at other V10s (and actually seemed a bit happier than people at other V10s I’ve met with in the past).

Would love to hear some legitimate reason for why someone shouldn’t choose STB over places like DPW/Skadden/S&C/PW/etc.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428116
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:01 am
Has anyone in this thread actually given a concrete reason why STB M&A is so bad? It seems like a lot of speculation and bashing of STB without any legitimate reasons. Hours can’t be that much worse than the other V10s. Is it just the people? Anecdotally, I’ve met with people from STB before and all seemed to be totally fine and not any different than those at other V10s (and actually seemed a bit happier than people at other V10s I’ve met with in the past).

Would love to hear some legitimate reason for why someone shouldn’t choose STB over places like DPW/Skadden/S&C/PW/etc.
Serious question, what kind of “concrete reason” are you hoping to get? Given TLS’s nature as an online comment board, I don’t think you’ll find anything other than a collection of anecdotes.

I will say, as a one of DPW/S&C/CSM M&A associate, my law school friends at STB seem to be working harder than me or my friends at my firm on average (not that any of us are having a ton of fun…)

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Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:46 am

"Anecdotally, I’ve met with people from STB before and all seemed to be totally fine and not any different than those at other V10s "

Can we back up and stop acting like this is a reasonable proxy for what a firm would be like and I say this as a non-STB specific comment. As a law student or associate at another firm, I get that insight into a firm is limited, but the amount of time you're spending in an interview is pretty inconsequential (or a casual social gathering) particularly if this person is a Partner at the firm. People in big law firms are intelligent enough to make it through law school and do good work and have reasonable enough social skills to be able to advance; you're not gonna show up to the interview and have someone say "yes, I'm that guy you've heard about that loves to yell at associates and call them retarded".

If your friends once you graduate and work somewhere are telling you a place is bad, its probably bad. If a disproportionately high number of current and former associates are telling you a place is bad, its probably bad.

"speculation and bashing of STB without any legitimate reasons."

I don't know what this would be. People representing they are former and current associates are saying it is bad. Once you've worked in big law, you get a sense of what is 'typical' based on what your friends are doing; they presumably come to the conclusion its 'bad' because what they experience is significantly below what they perceive the market to be.

Like what do you want to see, a spreadsheet comparing the number of weekends worked per year per firm? An analysis of which firms use the most unkind language towards associates? This just doesn't exist, you have to rely on the perceptions of those who have been there.

I will say I heard that a couple years ago one of the non-NYC STB offices apparently had a 50% summer acceptance rate; that is pretty wild and don't see how that happens unless there were clear problems people were perceiving.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: OK, just how bad is STB M&A?

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Sep 24, 2021 2:00 pm

Of course it’s all competing anecdotes and people have different experiences. My exposure to STB M&A has been that the transactional laterals from STB to the firms I’ve worked at have found what I thought was intense / bad culture at my firms a marked improvement. Common complaints about STB M&A seemed to be that juniors are expected to be super responsive and feel on call 24/7 more so than is usual, personal matters or the need for sick leave, a break or vacation can be less respected, and the expectations and hours are just ridiculous without necessarily translating to getting meaningful responsibility. Having been at a few other V10/V15 firms, I don’t know that STB is the worst place to be in M&A as a junior but it’s in the running.

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