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Background - I started at another firm but lateralled 10+ years ago as an associate to K&E. I am on the corporate side. There's so much misinformation about my firm out there and I want to set things straight. We don't want students and lateral candidates to avoid us because they've heard something about us that isn't true. So here's your chance to ask away.

What are median hours. I hear Kirkland is worse than other firms in that respect.

Edit to ask, are the lateral recruitment bonuses true? Are they paying north of 200k for mid-senior M&A, CapM and Funds associates?

Thanks for doing this. What is non-share partner compensation like for someone in the 8+ year category (i.e., someone who didn't make share partner)?

I am a K&E junior choosing between capital markets and M&A. I am curious what your perspective is on someone who frequently turns down work and ends the year between 2100-2200 hours. Is that enough hours or is the frequently turning down of work viewed in a bad light?

How many years does a non-equity partner have to make equity before they are pushed out?

What percentage of associates roughly make non-equity partner? And what percentage of non-equity partners make equity?

K&E NSP here. I won’t step on OP’s thread, but glad to chime in with additional perspective if helpful. I do agree that much of what is posted on these forums is quite different from my own experience.

How do we know you’re a Kirk share partner and not a Paul comma Weiss second year associate?

Buglaw wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 7:52 pm

What are median hours. I hear Kirkland is worse than other firms in that respect.

Edit to ask, are the lateral recruitment bonuses true? Are they paying north of 200k for mid-senior M&A, CapM and Funds associates?

In years past it was always around 1900-1950. Numbers aren't out yet because our year ends 8/31 but I am guessing they will be significantly higher. If I had to guess, 2200 or so.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 8:00 pm

Thanks for doing this. What is non-share partner compensation like for someone in the 8+ year category (i.e., someone who didn't make share partner)?

If you're waiting around as a senior NSP trying to make shares, then you're still "on the grid" meaning you get a small bump every year on top of the standard scale - think 15k or so. However, we cut deals for permanent NSPs and they get around 1 million or more.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:36 pm

How many years does a non-equity partner have to make equity before they are pushed out?

We don't push lawyers like this out usually. They almost always leave on their own once they realize they are not going to make it. We are happy for them to stay - they are usually quite good (to have made it this far) and profitable for the firm.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 9:45 pm

What percentage of associates roughly make non-equity partner? And what percentage of non-equity partners make equity?

Over half of the 6th year class gets the bump to NSP.

Of the NSPs that last at least 4-5 years, around 1 in 4 make it.

Do NSPs also receive bonuses or is it just salary?

Why do you think turnover has been so insane this year? Obviously the hours have been bonkers but do you think that's it?

Are NSPs treated financially as partners even if they don't have shares (i.e. pay state income tax of the partnership regardless of which office they work in, pay for their own healthcare, have to make capital contributions)?

If so, why would NSPs stay? I know this sounds like a challenge, but it really isn't. If someone could me an equal amount elsewhere as a senior associate but not pay for their own healthcare, I'd imagine the equation almost always works in favor leaving but obviously, Kirkland has an arm of NSPs. Are their over-market payments compensating them for the other costs, or are they all hanging on to the hope that they'll eventually become an SP?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:31 pm

Do NSPs also receive bonuses or is it just salary?

They get bonuses on the normal bonus scale.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 10:35 pm

Why do you think turnover has been so insane this year? Obviously the hours have been bonkers but do you think that's it?

Hours mainly, but also just a disconnect from normal human interaction that would be creating a sense of team and camaraderie which we don't have right now. And the lateral market is super hot so you can go wherever you want. At the senior NSP levels, I think the firm has made a mistake by not promoting more share partners. Last year we seized up a bit thinking COVID could cause an extended downturn and didn't promote senior NSPs that we otherwise would have in normal years. Understandably a lot of them left because of that, which has put a lot of pressure on the share partnership to pick up their slack and do more real work. I have the feeling that this year we will promote more share partners than ever in the firm's history.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13 pm

Are NSPs treated financially as partners even if they don't have shares (i.e. pay state income tax of the partnership regardless of which office they work in, pay for their own healthcare, have to make capital contributions)?

If so, why would NSPs stay? I know this sounds like a challenge, but it really isn't. If someone could me an equal amount elsewhere as a senior associate but not pay for their own healthcare, I'd imagine the equation almost always works in favor leaving but obviously, Kirkland has an arm of NSPs. Are their over-market payments compensating them for the other costs, or are they all hanging on to the hope that they'll eventually become an SP?

They don't make capital contributions, but yes to the other stuff. Why do they stay? The newest/lowest share partners will take home almost $2.5 million this year. No other firm pays as much.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:05 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13 pm

Are NSPs treated financially as partners even if they don't have shares (i.e. pay state income tax of the partnership regardless of which office they work in, pay for their own healthcare, have to make capital contributions)?

If so, why would NSPs stay? I know this sounds like a challenge, but it really isn't. If someone could me an equal amount elsewhere as a senior associate but not pay for their own healthcare, I'd imagine the equation almost always works in favor leaving but obviously, Kirkland has an arm of NSPs. Are their over-market payments compensating them for the other costs, or are they all hanging on to the hope that they'll eventually become an SP?

They don't make capital contributions, but yes to the other stuff. Why do they stay? The newest/lowest share partners will take home almost $2.5 million this year. No other firm pays as much.

Generally, how many years does it take to make share partner? 10?

Also, how is the “culture” of the firm throughout different offices? I’ve heard that it varies because of how quickly the firm has expanded In multiple cities. Also, has there been any impact on the high turnover rates this year? It looks like Kirkland is near net 0 associates according to amlaw.

Third, how does the firm treat sixth year laterals? Do they have to stay at the firm for a number of years before being given the NSP title? There’s a role I’ve been eyeing that is looking for 6 years, and I don’t know if that means NSP or associate.

Lastly, are most NSPs paid slightly more than associates?

Edit:

When you talk about the misinformation, are you talking about it from both sides? There seems to be a ton of junior level Kirkland associates trying to explain Kirkland’s whole business model in defense of the firm. And that also seems laughably incorrect (based on my conversations with Midlevel/senior associates).

Thanks for doing this! Incoming K&E first year here (corporate) and would love your thoughts:

1. I know it’s impossible to predict this far ahead, but if you were starting at the firm right now, what practice area(s) would you pursue to be on a path for shares 10 years from now? Based on the limited info you have now.

2. Are there ever opportunities to get promoted beyond your class, or make NSP/shares earlier than “usual?” If so, how does that happen? If not, what should high-performing associates do to capitalize on their early successes? Are there steps that can be taken that will add up to better partnership odds down the road?

3. Can you speak at all to the role that associates can play in the new business process? Other ways to start getting involved with the client side of things early?

4. Are there any committees or other firm activities beyond billables that you think are particularly valuable for associates, or that might help lay the groundwork for partnership several years later?

Thank you!

Is K&E still on a lateral hiring spree and offering the six figure signing bonuses? For a senior in a high demand practice group at a rival firm, is there much of an interview process or do they hire anyone with a pulse?

Mind sharing what office? (maybe via PM?). Will be joining one of the major offices (CHI/NY) next year. Curious about the culture of your group.

I know you’re on the corporate side, but do you have any idea as to where people in Rx exit to?

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 20, 2021 11:30 am

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Top performers get crushed everywhere. It's dumb, but it's also tragedy of the commons. People want good folks to do their important work because it makes their life easier. Think about which juniors you call to staff for complicated stuff, is it the good folks are the not so good? Same thing for partners resulting in good associates getting crushed and many burning out while mediocre associates can coast for years because it just isn't that bad for them. Firms need the bodies to do the work, so they don't get fired, etc.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 20, 2021 9:14 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Aug 20, 2021 12:05 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 19, 2021 11:13 pm

Are NSPs treated financially as partners even if they don't have shares (i.e. pay state income tax of the partnership regardless of which office they work in, pay for their own healthcare, have to make capital contributions)?

If so, why would NSPs stay? I know this sounds like a challenge, but it really isn't. If someone could me an equal amount elsewhere as a senior associate but not pay for their own healthcare, I'd imagine the equation almost always works in favor leaving but obviously, Kirkland has an arm of NSPs. Are their over-market payments compensating them for the other costs, or are they all hanging on to the hope that they'll eventually become an SP?

They don't make capital contributions, but yes to the other stuff. Why do they stay? The newest/lowest share partners will take home almost $2.5 million this year. No other firm pays as much.

Generally, how many years does it take to make share partner? 10?

Also, how is the “culture” of the firm throughout different offices? I’ve heard that it varies because of how quickly the firm has expanded In multiple cities. Also, has there been any impact on the high turnover rates this year? It looks like Kirkland is near net 0 associates according to amlaw.

Third, how does the firm treat sixth year laterals? Do they have to stay at the firm for a number of years before being given the NSP title? There’s a role I’ve been eyeing that is looking for 6 years, and I don’t know if that means NSP or associate.

Lastly, are most NSPs paid slightly more than associates?

Edit:

When you talk about the misinformation, are you talking about it from both sides? There seems to be a ton of junior level Kirkland associates trying to explain Kirkland’s whole business model in defense of the firm. And that also seems laughably incorrect (based on my conversations with Midlevel/senior associates).

10 years is the earliest. There are some exceptions but not many and those are very fact specific. 11-12 years is more common now.

It's hard to describe the culture of a firm that has 3k lawyers spread across the globe. However, our partnership is younger than that of our peers, we don't care if lockstep firms think it is gauche for us to aggressively pursue talent with big $$, and we care less about pedigree than results.

If you come in as a 6th year there's a chance you may be asked to take a year haircut so we have a bit more time to evaluate you before you get NSP.