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+1, it was life changingExpOriental wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:43 pmI actually work for free to achieve the maximum possible tax avoidance
not to also hijack but what was your interview like? I have one coming up and I have no idea what to expect but feels like I shouldn't just be expecting the same shit I saw at v5/v10 pre-OCI interviewsAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:32 pmIs working at WLRK really worth the extra money compared to other V10s? Extra money doesn't seem as much considering bonuses are taxed higher...is it stupid to go to another V10 where there is some semblance of work-life balance and where there isn't much of a FaceTime requirement. Seems like you're really on-call 24/7 at wachtell
Yes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more. Besides, if you really hate it at Wachtell, you can easily lateral to a different firm.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 9:32 pmIs working at WLRK really worth the extra money compared to other V10s? Extra money doesn't seem as much considering bonuses are taxed higher...is it stupid to go to another V10 where there is some semblance of work-life balance and where there isn't much of a FaceTime requirement. Seems like you're really on-call 24/7 at wachtell
I'm a junior in a non-Wachtell V5 with friends at Wachtell. I truly do believe that there is a material difference between the two firms, and while Wachtell doesn't necessarily have screamers, they do have a monopoly on your time. I myself am not as able as the Wachtell associates to work my entire day away, so I know I'd burn out if I had to work as hard as the Wachtell associates do without any break. If you're trying to last 5+ years and you don't think you could survive 5+ years of 3000+ hours, I'd go to another firm. I'm sure you have great choices if Wachtell is an option.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:51 amI'm the OP. Ok there are actually some practice groups within some V10s (in particular, two V10s) and a V20 (Deb) which are known to not require weekend work for juniors and there is much more control over one's life as well as a respect for vacation / facetime. It seems like those firms would be worth it to me over Wachtell. I'm not obsessed with prestige like so many KJDs--I want to work somewhere that's sustainable. No screamers, vacation respected etc.
They aren't.
Thank you. Even Funds always requires weekend work? Have hard differently from lots of folks.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:01 amI'm a junior in a non-Wachtell V5 with friends at Wachtell. I truly do believe that there is a material difference between the two firms, and while Wachtell doesn't necessarily have screamers, they do have a monopoly on your time. I myself am not as able as the Wachtell associates to work my entire day away, so I know I'd burn out if I had to work as hard as the Wachtell associates do without any break. If you're trying to last 5+ years and you don't think you could survive 5+ years of 3000+ hours, I'd go to another firm. I'm sure you have great choices if Wachtell is an option.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:51 amI'm the OP. Ok there are actually some practice groups within some V10s (in particular, two V10s) and a V20 (Deb) which are known to not require weekend work for juniors and there is much more control over one's life as well as a respect for vacation / facetime. It seems like those firms would be worth it to me over Wachtell. I'm not obsessed with prestige like so many KJDs--I want to work somewhere that's sustainable. No screamers, vacation respected etc.
Edit: Don't listen to the marketing though. All V10s will require some weekend work.
This is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
You're hilarious. Suppose not considering I have an offer from every V10 I interviewed with...Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:38 pmShouldn’t it be an auto-ding from any V10 to think that bonuses are taxed higher than other income?
Yes.... funds folks are getting crushed. You don't bill 2400+ a year Monday to Friday. Probably less weekend work than M&A, CapM, Levfin, etc. But still plenty of weekend work to go around.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:19 pmThank you. Even Funds always requires weekend work? Have hard differently from lots of folks.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 11:01 amI'm a junior in a non-Wachtell V5 with friends at Wachtell. I truly do believe that there is a material difference between the two firms, and while Wachtell doesn't necessarily have screamers, they do have a monopoly on your time. I myself am not as able as the Wachtell associates to work my entire day away, so I know I'd burn out if I had to work as hard as the Wachtell associates do without any break. If you're trying to last 5+ years and you don't think you could survive 5+ years of 3000+ hours, I'd go to another firm. I'm sure you have great choices if Wachtell is an option.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:51 amI'm the OP. Ok there are actually some practice groups within some V10s (in particular, two V10s) and a V20 (Deb) which are known to not require weekend work for juniors and there is much more control over one's life as well as a respect for vacation / facetime. It seems like those firms would be worth it to me over Wachtell. I'm not obsessed with prestige like so many KJDs--I want to work somewhere that's sustainable. No screamers, vacation respected etc.
Edit: Don't listen to the marketing though. All V10s will require some weekend work.
If the tax thing isn’t an auto ding, thinking this reply is a good look should beAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:45 pmYou're hilarious. Suppose not considering I have an offer from every V10 I interviewed with...Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:38 pmShouldn’t it be an auto-ding from any V10 to think that bonuses are taxed higher than other income?
If you really think you are going to work only 2200 hours, I would advise you to look at other options than biglaw. This is coming from someone who just billed close to 3000 hours last year at a v10 m&a group (OP mentioned m&a and wachtell, so unless he/she is considering accepting an offer from some non-nyc biglaw doing something other than m&a, I don’t think this is a terrible advice).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:21 pmThis is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
Would recommend wlrk for fitDefinitely Not North wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 1:16 pmIf the tax thing isn’t an auto ding, thinking this reply is a good look should beAnonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:45 pmYou're hilarious. Suppose not considering I have an offer from every V10 I interviewed with...Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:38 pmShouldn’t it be an auto-ding from any V10 to think that bonuses are taxed higher than other income?
Counterpoint: I am a biglaw partner and have never billed more than 2200 hours in a year (not counting pro bono, BD, and non billable, but still). Not in NYC and not in the top half of the V100, but there are definitely biglaw shops that are a lot more humane than others.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:56 pmIf you really think you are going to work only 2200 hours, I would advise you to look at other options than biglaw. This is coming from someone who just billed close to 3000 hours last year at a v10 m&a group (OP mentioned m&a and wachtell, so unless he/she is considering accepting an offer from some non-nyc biglaw doing something other than m&a, I don’t think this is a terrible advice).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:21 pmThis is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
Let's not be dramatic. Lots of people bill 2200 or less. I think the a majority in big law do. 3000 is absurd. That would make you the top biller at probably a majority of the amlaw 100.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:56 pmIf you really think you are going to work only 2200 hours, I would advise you to look at other options than biglaw. This is coming from someone who just billed close to 3000 hours last year at a v10 m&a group (OP mentioned m&a and wachtell, so unless he/she is considering accepting an offer from some non-nyc biglaw doing something other than m&a, I don’t think this is a terrible advice).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:21 pmThis is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
Okay. Fair point. I guess I am just pissed off because I feel like I work as many hours as Wachtell associates do, but get paid way less. Unlike OP, I didn’t have an offer from Wachtell, so maybe I shouldn’t feel so bad lol.Buglaw wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 6:13 pmLet's not be dramatic. Lots of people bill 2200 or less. I think the a majority in big law do. 3000 is absurd. That would make you the top biller at probably a majority of the amlaw 100.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:56 pmIf you really think you are going to work only 2200 hours, I would advise you to look at other options than biglaw. This is coming from someone who just billed close to 3000 hours last year at a v10 m&a group (OP mentioned m&a and wachtell, so unless he/she is considering accepting an offer from some non-nyc biglaw doing something other than m&a, I don’t think this is a terrible advice).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:21 pmThis is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
Corporate at a v10 is rough right now, but it wasn't always this bad and won't always be this bad. We are just wayyyyyyy short on associates because firms underhired for a long time due to their perceived view on "structural shifts" in the legal field, which turned out to not actually exist.
I know several people at Wachtell. They billed close to 4000 hours last year and are projected to surpass that this year. Let's not trivialize just how much more you are working at Wachtell. Good rule of thumb is you will work about 1000 more hours than at your V10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 3:56 pmIf you really think you are going to work only 2200 hours, I would advise you to look at other options than biglaw. This is coming from someone who just billed close to 3000 hours last year at a v10 m&a group (OP mentioned m&a and wachtell, so unless he/she is considering accepting an offer from some non-nyc biglaw doing something other than m&a, I don’t think this is a terrible advice).Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:21 pmThis is terrible advice. First, is the discussion restricted to NYC? Most other cities have better QOL and lower COL. Second, and more importantly, not all hours are the same. Thinking about the additional work at Wachtell in terms of how it affects the free time you would have at another V10 really puts into perspective just how much more work 3000 hours is compared to, say, 2200 hours.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:47 amYes, it’s worth it. There is no work-life balance in any of nyc V10s. You might as well work some more and get paid more.
Yeah, this isn't true, especially at a v10. There are some practice groups at some firms known to require *somewhat less* weekend work and last minute fire drills (e.g. funds) but even those groups are slammed right now. You definitely cannot generalize and say that those groups require no weekend work. Yes, there is a measurable difference between working at a v10 and Wachtell in terms of lifestyle, but right now in transactional you'll still be having a pretty bad time at a v10.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 10:51 amI'm the OP. Ok there are actually some practice groups within some V10s (in particular, two V10s) and a V20 (Deb) which are known to not require weekend work for juniors and there is much more control over one's life as well as a respect for vacation / facetime. It seems like those firms would be worth it to me over Wachtell. I'm not obsessed with prestige like so many KJDs--I want to work somewhere that's sustainable. No screamers, vacation respected etc.
1. You don’t have an offer from Wachtell as they haven’t given any yet.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:45 pmYou're hilarious. Suppose not considering I have an offer from every V10 I interviewed with...Ultramar vistas wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 12:38 pmShouldn’t it be an auto-ding from any V10 to think that bonuses are taxed higher than other income?