Laterals: Is firm “culture” real? Forum

[DougEvans789]

Law students spend lots of time handwringing about firm culture. But lots of these firms hire largely on the basis of school and GPA. It seems kind of hard for me to imagine that there’s an appreciable culture difference between, say, Cravath and Davis Polk that holds true across departments and over the years.

For people who have lateraled, do you think firm culture a real phenomenon?

[Anonymous User]

It's 100% real. I was shocked when I realized that as a lateral. I worked at one of the two firms you mentioned and lateraled to a V20 was really mad at myself for not doing so earlier. The collegiality at my new firm has been something I did not believe existed in big law. I had the same idea as the one you outlined, so it's not like I went looking for a difference.

I don't know if I would have appreciated the difference had I come to my current firm straight out of law school though.

[Anonymous User]

100% agree with the sentiment above. I just lateralled recently and couldn't be happier, despite being in a very busy group in a very busy market generally. The people make all of the difference, but I also don't think I could have appreciated how great the partners I currently work for are if I hadn't worked for some really horrible and some mediocre partners prior to my current shop.

[Anonymous User]

Firm #1 (V10) was absolutely miserable, associates openly hostile to most partners behind their backs, and just reflexive antagonism all around. Firm #2 (well-regarded secondary market biglaw) was fine, some good people some bad, but at least people were generally positive about the gig and were nice to each other. Firm #3 (boutique) has been great. Still work too much but love everyone I work with. Definitely do not assume every firm is the same. Split your summer if you can. Talk to more people at the firm, or people who recently left, than just the people they have you meet on a callback.

[hdr]

There are huge cultural differences between firms, though I think a lot depends on practice group more than anything else.

[nixy]

It seems kind of hard for me to imagine that there’s an appreciable culture difference between, say, Cravath and Davis Polk that holds true across departments and over the years.

This may be true in that a firm traditionally labeled “bro-y” may not actually be exclusively bro-y across all departments at all times, but that doesn’t mean the experience of working at these firms is all the same. Every time you work with a different group of people, there is likely a different culture. Your experience at the bro-y firm may not be at all bro-y, but it’s still likely to be very different from your experience at another firm with other people.

[jhett]

Firm culture is real, but practice group culture is also real. Two different practice groups in the same firm may have very different cultures. So you have to feel out both before you lateral.

[Anonymous User]

Even supposing that firm culture is a real thing, that still doesn’t make it actionable/useful for 2Ls picking a firm — since it’s very difficult IMO to get a feel for culture when interviewing or doing second looks (even more true during the Zoom era).

That’s because: (a) interviewees only speak to a small, unrepresentative sample of people at the firm (like 10-15 people at most & possibly selected by recruiting for their non-weirdness), and (b) the people at the firm are generally putting up some kind of facade.

It’s possible to “click” with one or two interviewers in particular, but I’m not sure that’s the same as having a good fit with the general working culture at XYZ firm.

[Raiden]

At the end of the day, its about who you are working with that matters the most. Sure, Jerry may be a jerk, but if you only see Jerry on Monday donut day, then who cares, unless Jerry always takes all the bear claws. Then that needs to be brought up to HR.

[Anonymous User]

Culture is very office-specific, and sometimes deal team-specific. I've worked at two different firms - one with a supposedly better culture. I realized that these are pretty much all similar shops culture-wise. What matters is compensation, benefits and prestige (exit options).

[tbp140]

Culture is real but I don't think it should matter in your choice in picking firms. Turnover is so high that culture could very quickly.

[Anonymous User]

How you mesh with your practice group is basically far and away the most important factor in determining how long you will be staying in biglaw and probably should be the most important determination on deciding which firm to pick after comp considerations.

But as others have said, it's pretty impossible to determine from OCI. I still think you should put some weight into it but think it's more of a consideration when picking your practice group after the summer.

[Anonymous User]

Adding to the chorus here, culture is real, and when I changed firms I was pleasantly surprised. It really is true that there's a layering of firm-wide culture, culture within the practice, and then within your specific team. Lots of room for luck of the draw in that overlapping reality, but I was cynical and really didn't expect there to be a meaningful difference when I moved. My hours actually went up, but it really was easier to tolerate when the people I interacted with the most were less distressing to work with.

The only takeaway that is of use to law students is probably to trust the advice of any contacts within a group as to wisdom of joining that group. That said, when you're a student you don't really have access to that kind of advice typically, and before you've been put through the wringer of being in biglaw for a time, it's hard to appreciate it.