Would you take this offer at FAANG with a pay cut and a cross-country move? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I am in the very fortunately position to have received an offer from FAANG in California. It is an offer from my dream company. But taking this offer would require me to relocate from New York and take a pay cut (details below). Would you take this offer?

Current position: in house at a F500 company in New York, all in comp = ~320k; I work very well with, and like very much the legal team here and also like my non-legal colleagues. Up for promotion next year that would bump my pay to ~350k plus additional stock grant (amount TBD).

Offer: in house at FAANG in California, all in comp = ~250k with a 25k sign on; I think I would work well with the legal team based on the interviews, but this job would require me to relocate. My spouse earns more than I do and would need to move with me and be subject to the higher California tax, so take home pay would take a bigger hit (my pay cut + spouse's additional taxes). Would also need to sell our place in New York (~1M ish) and buy a new place in California (~1.5M ish). The relocation package of this company does not cover closing costs on either end.

My heart is telling me to say yes because this is an offer from my dream company, but my head is telling me that it's not worth it. If the collective TLS wisdom can give me any guidance, that would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance everyone!

[Anonymous User]

Seems like a no brainer no to me, but I'm only just embarking on my career so others with more wisdom would be better suited to give you a well thought out answer. Seriously could never even consider doing this for such a significant pay cut + relocation + higher tax for both of you. Not to mention the fact that it seems you really like your current job.

[Anonymous User]

I am in the very fortunately position to have received an offer from FAANG in California. It is an offer from my dream company. But taking this offer would require me to relocate from New York and take a pay cut (details below). Would you take this offer?

Current position: in house at a F500 company in New York, all in comp = ~320k; I work very well with, and like very much the legal team here and also like my non-legal colleagues. Up for promotion next year that would bump my pay to ~350k plus additional stock grant (amount TBD).

Offer: in house at FAANG in California, all in comp = ~250k with a 25k sign on; I think I would work well with the legal team based on the interviews, but this job would require me to relocate. My spouse earns more than I do and would need to move with me and be subject to the higher California tax, so take home pay would take a bigger hit (my pay cut + spouse's additional taxes). Would also need to sell our place in New York (~1M ish) and buy a new place in California (~1.5M ish). The relocation package of this company does not cover closing costs on either end.

My heart is telling me to say yes because this is an offer from my dream company, but my head is telling me that it's not worth it. If the collective TLS wisdom can give me any guidance, that would be greatly, greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance everyone!

Living in Silicon Valley versus New York can be night and day. Take what fits your lifestyle most, and don't let the money dictate. And if you and your spouse plan to have kids, I would take the option near family. As someone with a family, COVID has taught me how important this is.

[Bosque]

This seems like a pretty clear no. Whether you think thus is your dream company, legal work is pretty much legal work. You might like Apple computers (or whichever you are targeting), but what the company sells isn’t gonna change your job much. Plus, if it’s FAANG they are likely going to work you harder. So you don’t even have the usually biglaw to in-house reason for moving. And you are giving up a good chance for a promotion for the uncertainty of a new hire (where they might decide in a year they don’t like you).

Why take a substantial pay cut for that? Unless your family is in California or something, I don’t see it.

[Anonymous User]

It would be helpful to know why this company is your dream company really, because otherwise I cannot understand why you would take the offer.

[Anonymous User]

It would be helpful to know why this company is your dream company really, because otherwise I cannot understand why you would take the offer.

Same thought here. Taking this offer seems bonkers unless you have exhausted all possible other jobs in the geographic market.

[Anonymous User]

(Anon because I have inside comp information.)

I'm 90% certain I know which FAANG this is. I have many anecdotal data points that this particular company is a tough place to work as an attorney (long hours, bad job security), as well as below-market comp for FAANG (and no, not talking about Amazon here). Not sure why you would consider uprooting not only yourself but a loved one for this.

Edited to remove the name of the company.

[legalpotato]

This seems like a pretty clear no. Whether you think thus is your dream company, legal work is pretty much legal work. You might like Apple computers (or whichever you are targeting), but what the company sells isn’t gonna change your job much. Plus, if it’s FAANG they are likely going to work you harder. So you don’t even have the usually biglaw to in-house reason for moving. And you are giving up a good chance for a promotion for the uncertainty of a new hire (where they might decide in a year they don’t like you).

Why take a substantial pay cut for that? Unless your family is in California or something, I don’t see it.

This. TBH, not saying this is a flame, but I also wouldn't be surprised if it is. Assuming OP started in biglaw, don't know how anyone could possible have "dreams" much less idealize any sort of corporate or legal job shop as "my dream company". Again, not saying this is roll bread, I'm just feeling pessimistic at the moment.

[cisscum]

Dreaming about some soulless multinational corporation is extremely pathetic.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks very much everyone. I have read each and every response very carefully multiple times. As always, the collective TLS wisdom is illuminating. I know most of you here are full-time lawyers using your time and efforts to make this forum informative and helpful for everyone, and for that I am extremely grateful.

To respond to some of the questions raised so far:
1. I do not have family in either California or New York. Going home from either place takes about the same amount of time. The same is true for my spouse.
2. Location wise I do not really have a strong preference for either place and I would be willing to live in either place for the right offer with the right relocation package.
3. This is a real and serious question. This is my dream company because I wanted to work there in college and even considered switching to CS for it. But I take the point (and completely agree) that after working as a lawyer for so long I should be realistic enough to not have a dream company. Legal work is legal work and has very little to do with the company’s business.

Thanks again for all the responses so far. More thoughts/advice are always welcome.

[2013]

Weird that Google is your dream company…

[Anonymous User]

Thanks very much everyone. I have read each and every response very carefully multiple times. As always, the collective TLS wisdom is illuminating. I know most of you here are full-time lawyers using your time and efforts to make this forum informative and helpful for everyone, and for that I am extremely grateful.

To respond to some of the questions raised so far:
1. I do not have family in either California or New York. Going home from either place takes about the same amount of time. The same is true for my spouse.
2. Location wise I do not really have a strong preference for either place and I would be willing to live in either place for the right offer with the right relocation package.
3. This is a real and serious question. This is my dream company because I wanted to work there in college and even considered switching to CS for it. But I take the point (and completely agree) that after working as a lawyer for so long I should be realistic enough to not have a dream company. Legal work is legal work and has very little to do with the company’s business.

Thanks again for all the responses so far. More thoughts/advice are always welcome.

I think if you’ve hit a jackpot with the team you currently work with that it would take a lot more than that offer to give that up. Not saying the CA job won’t have cool coworkers but it’s a gamble I wouldn’t be willing to take (for that offer).

[Anonymous User]

I'd take that pay cut any day of the week and twice on Sunday to live in CA over NYC, but that's a personal thing.

Otherwise, I don't see why anyone would do this.

[techthrowaway]

I'm surprised they're not willing to match your current comp. I'm also surprised the offer is so low. I thought FNG offers 300k+ for 5 years' experience. AA also gets you into the 300k range with stock appreciation. Is your offer in SoCal? 1.5m is not getting you anything in the Bay, assuming you'll want a SFH and not the condo or townhouse equivalent of your NY home.

Subject matter/industry might not matter if you're doing securities or finance, but it definitely matters if you're a product attorney to be working on products you're interested in. Lots of people are down on you, OP, but I don't think it's a crazy choice.

[Anonymous User]

3. This is a real and serious question. This is my dream company because I wanted to work there in college and even considered switching to CS for it. But I take the point (and completely agree) that after working as a lawyer for so long I should be realistic enough to not have a dream company. Legal work is legal work and has very little to do with the company’s business.

With all due respect, you did not actually answer the question of why it was ever your dream company in the first place. That piece of information is even more crucial now that you have eliminated geography as a relevant consideration.

[jotarokujo]

different legal jobs can actually be pretty different, substance wise

[Anonymous User]

With all due respect, you did not actually answer the question of why it was ever your dream company in the first place. That piece of information is even more crucial now that you have eliminated geography as a relevant consideration.
[/quote]

Yeah. The more they talk the more it seems they are going to uproot their and their spouse's entire lives on a whim. Is working for Google that "cool" as to force your spouse to move for less money, higher taxes, and less certainty?

[nixy]

I mean of course they can, but you can also do the same kind of work for very different employers, so the OP would need to give more information about whether taking this job actually involves more desirable legal work that they’re currently doing.

[Anonymous User]

If it's a FAANG that also had an office in NY (I believe most do), and it's your dream office, any chance you can work out of their NY office?

[Anonymous User]

OP here, thanks so very much for the additional feedback. To respond to some additional questions raised above:

1. I can’t elaborate why it’s my dream company without outing the company, but I’ll say that the comments above made me realize that this being my dream company is no longer relevant in my decision because legal work has little to do with the company’s actual product.
2. I would be working in the same area of law. It’s not a product counsel job and the work would be the more or less the same regardless of industry.
3. They do have a New York office, but this role is in California. Agree that being able to work out of New York would address both the closing costs and the additional taxes (but would not fix the pay cut).
4. I am equally surprised by this offer. My peers at other FAANGs are pulling down upper 300s/lower 400s, without even taking into account stock appreciation. At the same time the hiring manager and the team seemed very sincere and transparent in the interviews, so I am assuming the best intent from them and remain very grateful for their vote of confidence.

Thanks again for all the responses so far. Much appreciated. Keep them coming!!

[Anonymous User]

If it's a lateral move (counsel -> counsel) and you like your current company, I would not take it, especially since you said you may be promoted next year. For in-house positions, I personally would only make a lateral move for a significant pay bump, or if it's bump in title I may take a pay cut (which I recently did).

4. I am equally surprised by this offer. My peers at other FAANGs are pulling down upper 300s/lower 400s, without even taking into account stock appreciation. At the same time the hiring manager and the team seemed very sincere and transparent in the interviews, so I am assuming the best intent from them and remain very grateful for their vote of confidence.

Sounds like you are being lowballed. It may not be underhanded on their part (e.g., budget restrictions), but you can do better. If you haven't already, try to negotiate your compensation package. You know they want you - just be honest about the costs you have to put into moving and see if they can sweeten the pot.

[lavarman84]

OP here, thanks so very much for the additional feedback. To respond to some additional questions raised above:

1. I can’t elaborate why it’s my dream company without outing the company, but I’ll say that the comments above made me realize that this being my dream company is no longer relevant in my decision because legal work has little to do with the company’s actual product.
2. I would be working in the same area of law. It’s not a product counsel job and the work would be the more or less the same regardless of industry.
3. They do have a New York office, but this role is in California. Agree that being able to work out of New York would address both the closing costs and the additional taxes (but would not fix the pay cut).
4. I am equally surprised by this offer. My peers at other FAANGs are pulling down upper 300s/lower 400s, without even taking into account stock appreciation. At the same time the hiring manager and the team seemed very sincere and transparent in the interviews, so I am assuming the best intent from them and remain very grateful for their vote of confidence.

Thanks again for all the responses so far. Much appreciated. Keep them coming!!

Have you tried negotiating at all? Do they know what you're currently making? I'm not trying to be condescending. Just surprised they aren't willing to come closer to what you're making now.

[Bosque]

OP here, thanks so very much for the additional feedback. To respond to some additional questions raised above:

1. I can’t elaborate why it’s my dream company without outing the company, but I’ll say that the comments above made me realize that this being my dream company is no longer relevant in my decision because legal work has little to do with the company’s actual product.
2. I would be working in the same area of law. It’s not a product counsel job and the work would be the more or less the same regardless of industry.
3. They do have a New York office, but this role is in California. Agree that being able to work out of New York would address both the closing costs and the additional taxes (but would not fix the pay cut).
4. I am equally surprised by this offer. My peers at other FAANGs are pulling down upper 300s/lower 400s, without even taking into account stock appreciation. At the same time the hiring manager and the team seemed very sincere and transparent in the interviews, so I am assuming the best intent from them and remain very grateful for their vote of confidence.

Thanks again for all the responses so far. Much appreciated. Keep them coming!!

Have you tried negotiating at all? Do they know what you're currently making? I'm not trying to be condescending. Just surprised they aren't willing to come closer to what you're making now.

This. I would tell them that, while you very much would like to work for them, you would hope they would at least match your current position. If they won't, then I think you are done.

Also, didn't see this in the initial post, but you mentioned your spouse makes more than you do. Is their job tied to geography? It sounds like not as you did not mention them needing to find a new job. But that is a consideration as well.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, thanks for the additional feedback. To respond to the new questions/comments above:

1. I also don’t think there’s anything underhanded on their part. The hiring manager and the recruiter both seemed genuine to me. It could be due to their budget or perhaps lawyers there just don’t earn that much. I know my peers at a few other FAANGs are paid in the upper 300s/lower 400s, but I don’t have any data points for this particular company.
2. Thanks for the negotiation tips. Even if they match me at 320k, I would still be worse off due to my tax situation (my spouse and I would both pay higher CA taxes). So, I countered with a number that’s significantly above the initial 250k offer and have not heard back, but even with my counter I would just get a tiny, tiny bump on an after tax basis. I also asked about closing costs but was told that the relocation package was standard and could not be changed. I was of course very polite (and even apologetic) in these discussions because I really liked the team and wanted to keep the connections. I think at this point I’ll just wait for them to come back to me, but I'm not optimistic that an agreement can be reached.
3. Spouse can keep the same job at the same pay at either location.

Thank you, thank you, thank you again for the responses so far. Please keep chiming in. I’ll report back with the results of my negotiations.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, just heard from the recruiter that they can move up by five thousand. I think I’m going to respectfully decline this offer on Monday. I almost cried just now -- it's not what I expected and I’m starting to question myself, but hopefully I will be able to recover from this over the weekend. I know time is a rare commodity for us lawyers and I am forever grateful for everyone who took the time to chime in. Have a great weekend everyone.