How to chill and bill in Big Law Forum

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How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:38 pm

I feel like I fell off of the hamster wheel and had an awakening. My firm's bonuses are shit and you have to pretty much bill 2100 or more to get something worth working for really. Our salary scale is compressed and I'm in a secondary market where we are no where close to market salaries, yet we bill just as many hours. I don't care about partnership because our partners are all over worked given the firm's leverage (pre-covid too) and the salaries for equity partner are on par with senior associates at market rate firms.

So I am deciding between staying at my firm and coasting by or going to a market paying big law firm (cash in on some signing bonus and 2x the salary) and being a mediocre associate who is not gunning for partner and work for a few years before making next career move. If I stay, I want to milk the 200 hours of pro bono and development hours which are easy to do and count toward our billable req't, and then only bill 1700 actual client hours or hell even less if I don't care to hit hours since the bonus and related stress isnt worth it.

If I stay, how does one go from being an A+ gunner associate, who is generally well liked and gets along with people at the firm (and who typically gets outsized responsibility and "coveted" roles on matters (although to me it's all just work work work)) to essentially doing the least amount of work possible without being a dick or offensive to mentors or good partners who I like and avoid being the first target if economy dips or layoffs come?

I started pushing back on new projects and I think people think I must be busy or burned out or something but when they see my hours this month (double digits) I know my phone will be ringing. But I also know there are associates in our bigger offices who are slow too. Im tempted to take a vacation every six weeks or something but that feels so obvious and I want to fly under the radar.

Any advice? I don't really have anyone to talk this through with so am grateful for any input

Lesion of Doom

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Lesion of Doom » Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:49 am

You'll have an easier time hiding in a big group at a BigLaw firm. People will assume that as a lateral you are struggling to get integrated, and then you need to become a B- associate able to carry just enough water not to get fired for 2-3 years.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:16 am

OP, are you in Asia?

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am

It's basically that you just have to say no to stuff, because you're too "busy." Say you're always "busy." WFH helps a ton with this. I often times am just watching a movie or going to the gym during the day. You also will probably have to pad your billables a bit, as otherwise the partners will notice you're full of BS. It's better to be slow and bad at your job, than full of BS.

Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:39 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.
I second this. The most important things are make sure the work you do is actually good, and make sure no partner has a reason to dislike you in particular. If you check those boxes consistently, you can get away with not doing very much work, turning down assignments, ignoring the emails that come to 3 people at once knowing that someone else will handle, not being proactive but instead waiting for someone else to flag things that aren’t actually pressing/important yet, things like that.

Just do a relatively small amount of good work and be an associate that people generally like, or at a minimum nobody actively dislikes.

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Anonymous User
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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am

I actually like the vacation route. Every year I start the first few months annualizing around 2500 then take 4 or 5 weeks of vacation and end the year around 2100.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am
I actually like the vacation route. Every year I start the first few months annualizing around 2500 then take 4 or 5 weeks of vacation and end the year around 2100.
Does that ever bite you reputation wise or in feasibility? I did that last year and I found it hard to get the time off because cases kept rolling in.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:25 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am
I actually like the vacation route. Every year I start the first few months annualizing around 2500 then take 4 or 5 weeks of vacation and end the year around 2100.
I think this is a good pattern, but might be hard to actually do, dependent on the firm and the location. Like I've heard that in NY you should be happy to get a week off at any point in time. One of the prime issues with biglaw is that you do not know when it will be busy, so I doubt partners let any associate walk for over a month.

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:39 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.
I second this. The most important things are make sure the work you do is actually good, and make sure no partner has a reason to dislike you in particular. If you check those boxes consistently, you can get away with not doing very much work, turning down assignments, ignoring the emails that come to 3 people at once knowing that someone else will handle, not being proactive but instead waiting for someone else to flag things that aren’t actually pressing/important yet, things like that.
This is also important. A lot of biglaw is basically Parkinson's Law in action: assignments will swell up to the time given. I've been on so many deals where there was a mad rush to hit a deadline. All the work is nearly complete thanks to around the clock work, when a few days before, one of the parties can't make it happen, and it all gets postponed for a week or two. You'd think that would mean an easy two weeks, as all the work is done and this is why you worked all those late hours, right? Nope! People will use that extra time to create more work, another round of review/comments, more calls, etc.

People have an incessant need to provide "value." But many of the points are not important. Don't add "value," just do your job, and don't get suckered into assignments that are not important or pressing. Let the people on the partnership track do that.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:25 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am
I actually like the vacation route. Every year I start the first few months annualizing around 2500 then take 4 or 5 weeks of vacation and end the year around 2100.
I think this is a good pattern, but might be hard to actually do, dependent on the firm and the location. Like I've heard that in NY you should be happy to get a week off at any point in time. One of the prime issues with biglaw is that you do not know when it will be busy, so I doubt partners let any associate walk for over a month..
That hasn’t been my experience. I’ve been at two V10s and I took/take two to three week vacations just fine. Same for my V3 friends. I’ve gotta say that the “V1” people seemed to have an extra good deal with vacation. I had a few friends who would just save all or most of their vacation time and then take a three to four week chunk — without having to care what their billables were.

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Anonymous User
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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 8:57 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:33 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:21 am
I actually like the vacation route. Every year I start the first few months annualizing around 2500 then take 4 or 5 weeks of vacation and end the year around 2100.
Does that ever bite you reputation wise or in feasibility? I did that last year and I found it hard to get the time off because cases kept rolling in.
I generally have an always busy reputation which makes everything easier in this job.

The hardest part for me is finding vacation time where I am not on deals. I find planning one 2 week vacation per year in advance and taking a few last minute improptu 1 or 2 week vacations after all my active deals happen to close around the same time works best.

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:40 am

How far in advance do you all claim your lengthy vacation time? My office has a practice of associates emailing everyone they work with well in advance of a vacation saying "I'll be out from X to Y; I'll send a reminder closer" (which usually comes the week before). I think 4-6 weeks in advance for a long vacation is a good practice but I've seen people doing this earlier and earlier. One associate recently sent this sort of heads-up message ten weeks before their coming vacation, which seems wild to me.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:36 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 9:40 am
How far in advance do you all claim your lengthy vacation time? My office has a practice of associates emailing everyone they work with well in advance of a vacation saying "I'll be out from X to Y; I'll send a reminder closer" (which usually comes the week before). I think 4-6 weeks in advance for a long vacation is a good practice but I've seen people doing this earlier and earlier. One associate recently sent this sort of heads-up message ten weeks before their coming vacation, which seems wild to me.
I do 2 months initial notice for a 2-week vacation and 1 month for anything shorter.

Anonymous User
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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:54 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:38 pm
So I am deciding between staying at my firm and coasting by or going to a market paying big law firm (cash in on some signing bonus and 2x the salary) and being a mediocre associate who is not gunning for partner and work for a few years before making next career move.
I was in a similar spot and just lateraled to a V25 from a regional AmLaw 200 firm. I’m fully remote, so no need to relocate. I was in a fairly small group and got sick of billing 250 hours every time someone else went out on parental leave or quit. With the signing and spring bonuses (which I get for doing basically nothing) my income will double this year. I’m also hoping I’ll be able to say “no” more and keep my workflow more even, now that I’m in a bigger group, but it’s too early to tell how that will pan out.

I don’t have any aspirations to be make partner and the V25 name on my resume should open a few more doors as far as going in-house. In the meantime, I’m going to ride out the upper tiers of this new DPW salary scale for as long as I can.

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Joachim2017

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Joachim2017 » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:01 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
It's basically that you just have to say no to stuff, because you're too "busy." Say you're always "busy." WFH helps a ton with this. I often times am just watching a movie or going to the gym during the day. You also will probably have to pad your billables a bit, as otherwise the partners will notice you're full of BS. It's better to be slow and bad at your job, than full of BS.

Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.

And people on TLS wonder/get on their high horses when partners at some firms move to get everyone back in the office...hahaha

(To preempt the indignant crowd of mid-levels eager to stay in their PJs all day, I'm not out here making value judgments about how you use your time or the deserts of the various parties involved. It's just naïve to reduce the movement to get people back in the office to "old partners are set in their old ways.")

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:37 am

Joachim2017 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:01 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
It's basically that you just have to say no to stuff, because you're too "busy." Say you're always "busy." WFH helps a ton with this. I often times am just watching a movie or going to the gym during the day. You also will probably have to pad your billables a bit, as otherwise the partners will notice you're full of BS. It's better to be slow and bad at your job, than full of BS.

Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.

And people on TLS wonder/get on their high horses when partners at some firms move to get everyone back in the office...hahaha

(To preempt the indignant crowd of mid-levels eager to stay in their PJs all day, I'm not out here making value judgments about how you use your time or the deserts of the various parties involved. It's just naïve to reduce the movement to get people back in the office to "old partners are set in their old ways.")
Not the quoted anon, but it's 2021 and I can be reached just as instantly from the gym or the couch as from my desk. If I get a really critical email during my workout, I can take a call right then and there (rare but it has happened).

Still a dinosaur approach to insist that everyone sit in the same building from 9a-6p and be reachable instantly outside of those hours. The gain to the business is minimal at best and the harm to the associate relative to WFH flexibility is high.

ffreeman987

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by ffreeman987 » Sun Jun 20, 2021 10:08 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:37 am
Joachim2017 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:01 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
It's basically that you just have to say no to stuff, because you're too "busy." Say you're always "busy." WFH helps a ton with this. I often times am just watching a movie or going to the gym during the day. You also will probably have to pad your billables a bit, as otherwise the partners will notice you're full of BS. It's better to be slow and bad at your job, than full of BS.

Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.

And people on TLS wonder/get on their high horses when partners at some firms move to get everyone back in the office...hahaha

(To preempt the indignant crowd of mid-levels eager to stay in their PJs all day, I'm not out here making value judgments about how you use your time or the deserts of the various parties involved. It's just naïve to reduce the movement to get people back in the office to "old partners are set in their old ways.")
Not the quoted anon, but it's 2021 and I can be reached just as instantly from the gym or the couch as from my desk. If I get a really critical email during my workout, I can take a call right then and there (rare but it has happened).

Still a dinosaur approach to insist that everyone sit in the same building from 9a-6p and be reachable instantly outside of those hours. The gain to the business is minimal at best and the harm to the associate relative to WFH flexibility is high.
Amen to this. If you're abusing WFH, then you get to go back to the office. Not everyone needs to be punished. The time saved in commute leads to greater productivity. As long as your god damn phone is on and you answer it (and respond as necessary, may mean leaving the gym and going home to fire up computer), then WFH works.

nixy

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by nixy » Sun Jun 20, 2021 1:33 pm

Joachim2017 wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 11:01 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:07 am
It's basically that you just have to say no to stuff, because you're too "busy." Say you're always "busy." WFH helps a ton with this. I often times am just watching a movie or going to the gym during the day. You also will probably have to pad your billables a bit, as otherwise the partners will notice you're full of BS. It's better to be slow and bad at your job, than full of BS.

Just never deliver actually bad work. But don't go above and beyond. I don't pick up my phone unless I really have to. I don't respond to e-mails unless they're addressed to me. It's that simple.

And people on TLS wonder/get on their high horses when partners at some firms move to get everyone back in the office...hahaha

(To preempt the indignant crowd of mid-levels eager to stay in their PJs all day, I'm not out here making value judgments about how you use your time or the deserts of the various parties involved. It's just naïve to reduce the movement to get people back in the office to "old partners are set in their old ways.")
I mean watching a movie or going to the gym during the day isn't really an issue when you can get assigned work and be expected to do that work essentially any time. If the job actually were 9-5, sure, WFH letting you watch a movie or the gym in the middle of that might support going back into the office. But when your job isn't actually time-limited, and you're hitting your hours, partners who want you back in the office because they think when you don't have work that has to be done right then, you should be, I guess, just sitting in your office doing nothing? rather than the selfish indulgence of recreation/exercise, are in fact set in their old ways. It's not like you can't be reached while you're watching a movie at home just as easily as if you're sitting in your office.

As has been said a zillion times, if WFH means you're not meeting your hours, then sure, address that with that person. But if you're just as productive WFH, and all your opponents have is a feeling that watching a movie/going to the gym in the middle of "business hours" is a moral failing, that's definitely an "old way" of thinking.

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lolwutpar

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by lolwutpar » Mon Jun 21, 2021 5:11 pm

I've watched entire seasons of shows in the office pre-COVID. WFH "distractions" are a flame

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Re: How to chill and bill in Big Law

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Jun 25, 2021 6:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Jun 18, 2021 10:54 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Wed Jun 16, 2021 9:38 pm
So I am deciding between staying at my firm and coasting by or going to a market paying big law firm (cash in on some signing bonus and 2x the salary) and being a mediocre associate who is not gunning for partner and work for a few years before making next career move.
I was in a similar spot and just lateraled to a V25 from a regional AmLaw 200 firm. I’m fully remote, so no need to relocate. I was in a fairly small group and got sick of billing 250 hours every time someone else went out on parental leave or quit. With the signing and spring bonuses (which I get for doing basically nothing) my income will double this year. I’m also hoping I’ll be able to say “no” more and keep my workflow more even, now that I’m in a bigger group, but it’s too early to tell how that will pan out.

I don’t have any aspirations to be make partner and the V25 name on my resume should open a few more doors as far as going in-house. In the meantime, I’m going to ride out the upper tiers of this new DPW salary scale for as long as I can.
OP here — thanks for sharing and it’s great to hear of someone similarly situated who made the move. I would love to hear how it goes when you get some more time under your belt at new firm. Was your prior firm one where you carried a lot of responsibility? If so, did that change at new firm? My hope is that the new firm will staff matters with more ppl than my current firm so I won’t be stuck in a similar situation where I carry too much on my own.

Were you able to get a signing bonus? Did you use a recruiter?

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