Is the corp market still hot for WLRK/S&C/CSM? Forum

[Anonymous User]

I have seen posts by people saying associates are hemorrhaging like crazy at firms like Kirkland et al. but never hear from associates at these firms? That can't be right surely? Is it because they have more generalist practices?

I get some firms are busier than others but come on, has to be the same with these firms too.

Genuinely curious lol.

[Anonymous User]

I have seen posts by people saying associates are hemorrhaging like crazy at firms like Kirkland et al. but never hear from associates at these firms? That can't be right surely? Is it because they have more generalist practices?

I get some firms are busier than others but come on, has to be the same with these firms too.

Genuinely curious lol.

No I think it's more that Kirkland attorneys are more likely to post here. You can guess as to why that is

[Anonymous User]

I can confirm that CSM and S&C are very busy and have also been having retention issues. More anecdotally, I heard that WLRK has been offering very significant retention bonuses due to attrition but I heard that 3rd hand.

[Anonymous User]

I can confirm that CSM and S&C are very busy and have also been having retention issues. More anecdotally, I heard that WLRK has been offering very significant retention bonuses due to attrition but I heard that 3rd hand.

Sorry to highjack the thread, but any idea how their lit groups are doing?

[Joachim2017]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a sixth year (not corp). I didn't have loans (I know, fortunate) and now have just cleared a million in savings. For the first time, I've toyed in my head with just leaving law entirely.

I'm not actually going to do that, but even just the thought would not have occurred to me a couple years ago. It's possible some people are doing that. Biglaw has been so lucrative for midlevels these past few years that some might just be buying their freedom, finally.

[Anonymous User]

Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends.

lol what? This is first time I'm hearing about this.

[Anonymous User]

I can confirm that CSM and S&C are very busy and have also been having retention issues. More anecdotally, I heard that WLRK has been offering very significant retention bonuses due to attrition but I heard that 3rd hand.

Sorry to highjack the thread, but any idea how their lit groups are doing?

Lit summer at CSM/S&C and it's v busy - tons of client advisory work and a few big lit matters going on seem to have people with enough work. Corporate is a whole nother level tho.

[Anonymous User]

I can confirm that CSM and S&C are very busy and have also been having retention issues. More anecdotally, I heard that WLRK has been offering very significant retention bonuses due to attrition but I heard that 3rd hand.

I am hearing the same re WLRK retention bonuses.

[jotarokujo]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

they're also going to government and PI

[Anonymous User]

I can confirm that CSM and S&C are very busy and have also been having retention issues. More anecdotally, I heard that WLRK has been offering very significant retention bonuses due to attrition but I heard that 3rd hand.

I am hearing the same re WLRK retention bonuses.

My V10 just took on a WLRK and Cravath lateral, and we are one of the firms frequently mentioned in "hemorrhaging" conversations, so things can't be all peachy up at the tippy top either.

[Anonymous User]

Wait, these super lockstep-y firms are paying individualized retention bonuses??

On the hand, like duh, yes, it’s clearly the smart move. On the other hand, seems like a major violation of the lockstep philosophy.

[Anonymous User]

Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends.

lol what? This is first time I'm hearing about this.

same. what's the basis for this? (bolded)

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

did you mean to type this or did u have a stroke?

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

Anecdotal, I know, but my V5 office corp group never had retention issues in the past and had a pretty good retention rate for biglaw, but this year alone we've lost I think 7 associates so far. And it's a not a big group. The last year really fucked with people and they are almost all fleeing in house. Some are relocating, some are not, and some got remote jobs.

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

Anecdotal, I know, but my V5 office corp group never had retention issues in the past and had a pretty good retention rate for biglaw, but this year alone we've lost I think 7 associates so far. And it's a not a big group. The last year really fucked with people and they are almost all fleeing in house. Some are relocating, some are not, and some got remote jobs.

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well, and I haven't seen any corporate laterals in the past few months to make up for the lost bodies. Everyone's getting wrecked with work and a lot are getting ready to dip as soon as their EOY bonuses hit their accounts (including me). If the firm doesn't have a contingency plan in place to deal with the January exodus, it's not gonna be good for the remaining associates (which in turn will lead to more exits).

[Anonymous User]

I wonder how much of this "hemorrhaging" rhetoric is overblown. There aren't THAT many in-house or GC or other jobs available that SO many lawyers can be fleeing towards. Where are all these people leaving all these places going?

My guess is that the burnout/exodus is worse at some places than others, and is also not as bad as these boards make it seem. (That doesn't mean it's worse than it's been in the past, of course).

If so, it would be interesting if there's a pattern to where the burnout is worst and where it's not as bad. Presumably places like Cravath, WLRK, and S&C have a longer, stronger culture and a more thoughtful approach to how to handle associate peaks and valleys, and so can better manage trends. But maybe not. It's a conjecture.

Anecdotal, I know, but my V5 office corp group never had retention issues in the past and had a pretty good retention rate for biglaw, but this year alone we've lost I think 7 associates so far. And it's a not a big group. The last year really fucked with people and they are almost all fleeing in house. Some are relocating, some are not, and some got remote jobs.

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well, and I haven't seen any corporate laterals in the past few months to make up for the lost bodies. Everyone's getting wrecked with work and a lot are getting ready to dip as soon as their EOY bonuses hit their accounts (including me). If the firm doesn't have a contingency plan in place to deal with the January exodus, it's not gonna be good for the remaining associates (which in turn will lead to more exits).

Same anon - we've hired a few laterals, but they're juniors...not really helpful for the remaining midlevels and seniors because that is who is leaving.

[Supercafe]

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well,

wtf is a V7

[Anonymous User]

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well,

wtf is a V7

Davis Polk I assume… you guys can just say New York based V10 and everyone will get the idea

[Anonymous User]

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well, and I haven't seen any corporate laterals in the past few months to make up for the lost bodies. Everyone's getting wrecked with work and a lot are getting ready to dip as soon as their EOY bonuses hit their accounts (including me). If the firm doesn't have a contingency plan in place to deal with the January exodus, it's not gonna be good for the remaining associates (which in turn will lead to more exits).

Same anon - we've hired a few laterals, but they're juniors...not really helpful for the remaining midlevels and seniors because that is who is leaving.

It's the circle of life - especially at these pay rates. As second and third years we were told that whenever someone senior to us left, we were getting a promotion on any deals we were on with them. I can't imagine firms want to add more $300k+ costs to their bottom line for the next three years if they think someone at 240k can do the same work. And if you lateral beyond about fourth/fifth year into many V10 firms, you risk being next on the chopping block when things slow down again.

[Anonymous User]

At Latham - I do not know how it is possible but in a personal conversation with one of our staffing coordinators I was told that somehow we have higher retention than usual in the past year. I’m sure if you isolate transactional groups this might not be the case but I still thought that was extremely surprising to hear.

[Joachim2017]

We've lost a ton of corporate associates at my V7 as well,

wtf is a V7

Davis Polk I assume… you guys can just say New York based V10 and everyone will get the idea

Uh, this is weird. I never wrote the above that says it quotes me. I assume one of these anons botched the quote function somewhere. Anyway, if I were at DPW, I'd say "V5" whatever the latest Vault rankings might be because I know it is a top 5 Big Law firm, whatever 2Ls or brave anons here might write. (I don't even think that's controversial, to be honest...)

[Joachim2017]

^^ It looks like TLS has a bug somewhere in the quote tool.