Income partner comp at V50 firms Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
User avatar
nahumya

Bronze
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:49 pm

Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by nahumya » Sat Jun 12, 2021 5:40 pm

Would appreciate any information on income partner comp at V50 firms. I know that we have some data points from Jones Day, but those are not too helpful in assessing other firms, since JD's compensation is different altogether. Thanks.

jacketyellow

Bronze
Posts: 311
Joined: Tue Dec 10, 2013 1:51 pm

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by jacketyellow » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:34 am

This is anecdotal, but an income partner at my firm said, "I don't make that much. I probably make a little more than a senior associate." Granted, senior associates $280,000+, but there you go.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:41 am

Income partners make about $800k on average at good but not tippy top firms like Latham. This is an average of all income partners so, a starting income partner is likely around $600k on up.

Jones Day is more like $400k on up. That firm is a middle market TTT.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 2:37 am

I'm income partner at a V50 firm. Total comp is $550k (base and bonus) plus a 401(k) match. We're also getting the same special bonus as an 8th year this year, so add an extra $64k to that total. I'm also expecting the firm to give us the new DPW scale bump, so should be an increase of $25k going forward.

jarofsoup

Gold
Posts: 2145
Joined: Tue Jul 01, 2008 2:41 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by jarofsoup » Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:55 am

Does that comp include your draw?

My sense is that senior legal staff at a Fortune 500 has potential to make a lot more money than a partner. Yet those positions are probably harder to get.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:23 am

I'm the prior anon. My firm treats us like associates when it comes to comp, so we just get a base salary and annual bonus. We don't get a draw. We're also treated like W-2 employees, so the firm still pays half our insurance premiums. I know income partners at some other firms have to pay full insurance premiums and self employment taxes.

cheaptilts

Silver
Posts: 593
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:29 pm

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by cheaptilts » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:28 am

jarofsoup wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:55 am
Does that comp include your draw?

My sense is that senior legal staff at a Fortune 500 has potential to make a lot more money than a partner. Yet those positions are probably harder to get.
Being an income partner implies that you don’t get a partner draw, which only goes to real partners (i.e., the ones who (ostensibly at least) actually share in the firm’s profits and losses). Income partners are in all effects except title salaried employees. But case law is still developing around this.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:32 am

cheaptilts wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:28 am
jarofsoup wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:55 am
Does that comp include your draw?

My sense is that senior legal staff at a Fortune 500 has potential to make a lot more money than a partner. Yet those positions are probably harder to get.
Being an income partner implies that you don’t get a partner draw, which only goes to real partners (i.e., the ones who (ostensibly at least) actually share in the firm’s profits and losses). Income partners are in all effects except title salaried employees. But case law is still developing around this.
Not always, though. @ LW at least income partners have units as well. The "income" denotes that they also get a guaranteed income (as the # of units is relatively small).

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:02 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:32 am
cheaptilts wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 11:28 am
jarofsoup wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 7:55 am
Does that comp include your draw?

My sense is that senior legal staff at a Fortune 500 has potential to make a lot more money than a partner. Yet those positions are probably harder to get.
Being an income partner implies that you don’t get a partner draw, which only goes to real partners (i.e., the ones who (ostensibly at least) actually share in the firm’s profits and losses). Income partners are in all effects except title salaried employees. But case law is still developing around this.
Not always, though. @ LW at least income partners have units as well. The "income" denotes that they also get a guaranteed income (as the # of units is relatively small).
Latham income partners do get a small number of units (about 1/5 of a first year equity partner) together with a base salary in the mid-200's. They are part of the partners bonus pool as well and I think usually range in the low to mid 100's there. The poster above it pretty good on the range (low 600's - 800's all in).

My understanding is that the unit grant to income partners at Latham is pretty rare though.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:15 pm

Income partner at firm in the V25-V75 range. Base is mid-300s, all-in comp is mid-400s. We are not treated as employees - I pay my own estimated taxes, don't get subsidized health insurance (though still get to participate in the firm's group plan), etc.

2013

Silver
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:29 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by 2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:51 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:15 pm
Income partner at firm in the V25-V75 range. Base is mid-300s, all-in comp is mid-400s. We are not treated as employees - I pay my own estimated taxes, don't get subsidized health insurance (though still get to participate in the firm's group plan), etc.
Does this mean you earn less as an income partner than you did as a senior associate?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:04 pm

2013 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:15 pm
Income partner at firm in the V25-V75 range. Base is mid-300s, all-in comp is mid-400s. We are not treated as employees - I pay my own estimated taxes, don't get subsidized health insurance (though still get to participate in the firm's group plan), etc.
Does this mean you earn less as an income partner than you did as a senior associate?
Was thinking the same thing... that sounds like at best they are breaking even here.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 8:26 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 6:04 pm
2013 wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:51 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 5:15 pm
Income partner at firm in the V25-V75 range. Base is mid-300s, all-in comp is mid-400s. We are not treated as employees - I pay my own estimated taxes, don't get subsidized health insurance (though still get to participate in the firm's group plan), etc.
Does this mean you earn less as an income partner than you did as a senior associate?
Was thinking the same thing... that sounds like at best they are breaking even here.
When I was at Morgan Lewis I know more than a few income partners complained they made more as associates in the year before they made partner. I think income partners at the time made like $450k all in but had to pay their own healthcare and some of the other things mentioned above that W2 employees don't have to deal with, and I believe at the time a senior associate hitting their bonus made $440k.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:01 pm

I've heard of lateraling partners starting at 700k at Greenberg traurig.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

2013

Silver
Posts: 930
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 2:29 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by 2013 » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:30 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:01 pm
I've heard of partners starting at 700k at Greenberg traurig.
I find that very hard to believe. Do you mean starting for equity?

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:32 pm

I fixed the GT statement above. I meant partners lateraling in with or without a book of business.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:36 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:41 am
Income partners make about $800k on average at good but not tippy top firms like Latham. This is an average of all income partners so, a starting income partner is likely around $600k on up.

Jones Day is more like $400k on up. That firm is a middle market TTT.
I'm not sure if this is a troll or just a misinformed poster. Latham is the highest-ranked firm with non-equity partners. $800k is not average, it is high. And Jones Day has only a single partnership class (not income partners) and that average is dragged down by offices in small cities (Pittsburgh, Detroit) and overseas.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:57 am

My understanding from income partner friends at my v50 is that they make only slightly above what the senior associates make (if above at all). Cravath scale. No draw.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:46 am

As of 2020 they made a base of $375k with an expectation of a $100k bonus for meeting their hours target. So basically they made only $35k more than 8th year associates at the time.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:05 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:36 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Jun 13, 2021 12:41 am
Income partners make about $800k on average at good but not tippy top firms like Latham. This is an average of all income partners so, a starting income partner is likely around $600k on up.

Jones Day is more like $400k on up. That firm is a middle market TTT.
I'm not sure if this is a troll or just a misinformed poster. Latham is the highest-ranked firm with non-equity partners. $800k is not average, it is high. And Jones Day has only a single partnership class (not income partners) and that average is dragged down by offices in small cities (Pittsburgh, Detroit) and overseas.
What nonsense. Jones Day, within its equity partner tier, has a percentage participant and non-percentage participant distinction that completely replicates the equity and income partner distinction at other law firms that have conventional naming. The only people who are stupid enough to be fooled by that distinction are the same idiots who are stupid enough to be fooled into thinking that Jones Day pays market salaries to any appreciable number of people in its major offices.

And yes there are “partners” at Jones Day in NY and LA who are making $400k on up. There would not be at Latham.

User avatar
nahumya

Bronze
Posts: 111
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:49 pm

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by nahumya » Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 pm

Thanks, all. This is depressing AF.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:32 pm

nahumya wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 pm
Thanks, all. This is depressing AF.
It helps the firm market you out to clients, and it helps you market yourself out to potential clients and a resume line.

From what I understand, junior income partners are pretty flat with associates. However, if you’re on path to equity, comp starts pushing closer to starting equity partner comp (which usually starts around $1M at my V30). So thriving income partners might see closer to $750K, for instance.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:32 pm
nahumya wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 pm
Thanks, all. This is depressing AF.
It helps the firm market you out to clients, and it helps you market yourself out to potential clients and a resume line.

From what I understand, junior income partners are pretty flat with associates. However, if you’re on path to equity, comp starts pushing closer to starting equity partner comp (which usually starts around $1M at my V30). So thriving income partners might see closer to $750K, for instance.
It’s better than being paid 8th year salary for 2-4 years while you wait for equity partnership at a single tier partnership firm. My firm is only a single tier firm and we have 12th year associates still waiting for an opening

Sackboy

Silver
Posts: 1041
Joined: Fri Mar 27, 2020 2:14 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Sackboy » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:34 pm

Not sure how it's depressing to likely be between 33-37 making $500k/yr. with a very real shot at $1M/yr.+ by the time you're 40, but OK.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428118
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Income partner comp at V50 firms

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:40 pm

nahumya wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:28 pm
Thanks, all. This is depressing AF.
This is what's wrong with this profession. Income partners make between $400k and 800k a year and somehow that's depressing? Even if you never make equity partner, you're talking income of $12 to $24 mil over the rest of your career. How in the world is that depressing?

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”