"JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions? Forum

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"JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Tue May 18, 2021 7:20 pm

In law school, I heard the same babble I think we all got about non-lawyer jobs where a JD would be seen as an asset. Do those jobs actually exist? What are they? Where are they?

I'm coming to the conclusion that I just hate practicing law (unfortunately, after digging myself a $150k hole), and am trying to figure out if there's anything else I can do as a career without going back to school. I'm a very shy and introverted person, and while I love to write (and I'm great at it), I loathe everything else and it's taking a very bad toll on my mental health. Unfortunately, my bachelor's is in English, so probably no use there.

Any ideas? Are these jobs real? Should I just crawl back to my parents' sofa and do document review forever? This is not to disparage document review or my parents' sofa, because it's an option I've been seriously considering.

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bruinfan10

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by bruinfan10 » Wed May 19, 2021 2:38 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:20 pm
In law school, I heard the same babble I think we all got about non-lawyer jobs where a JD would be seen as an asset. Do those jobs actually exist? What are they? Where are they?

I'm coming to the conclusion that I just hate practicing law (unfortunately, after digging myself a $150k hole), and am trying to figure out if there's anything else I can do as a career without going back to school. I'm a very shy and introverted person, and while I love to write (and I'm great at it), I loathe everything else and it's taking a very bad toll on my mental health. Unfortunately, my bachelor's is in English, so probably no use there.

Any ideas? Are these jobs real? Should I just crawl back to my parents' sofa and do document review forever? This is not to disparage document review or my parents' sofa, because it's an option I've been seriously considering.
I think it's largely made up by law school career offices. I mean, I guess like knowledge management / being a librarian or research attorney for Westlaw, etc., being a legal recruiter, working with an e-discovery vendor, working in sales for litigation support..... But like, not jobs I think most attorneys would be pumped to move over to.....

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by nixy » Wed May 19, 2021 3:15 pm

The ones I see referenced regularly are HR and compliance, and I do know people who’ve said they have friends who’ve had success getting these jobs. I’m honestly not all that certain what compliance entails, but at least it would be something to research.

(I actually think a lot of attorneys would be thrilled to move over to the other kinds of jobs, in that they don’t like being a lawyer, the difficulty is making the jump.)

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 3:18 pm

There are also compliance roles that are JD Preferred. I believe back in the day Goldman Sachs had compliance team roles that preferred JDs but weren't required. I'm not sure what the case is now, but they also work you as much as biglaw and pay shit so may as well go to a firm IMO.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 8:02 pm

bruinfan10 wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 2:38 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Tue May 18, 2021 7:20 pm
In law school, I heard the same babble I think we all got about non-lawyer jobs where a JD would be seen as an asset. Do those jobs actually exist? What are they? Where are they?

I'm coming to the conclusion that I just hate practicing law (unfortunately, after digging myself a $150k hole), and am trying to figure out if there's anything else I can do as a career without going back to school. I'm a very shy and introverted person, and while I love to write (and I'm great at it), I loathe everything else and it's taking a very bad toll on my mental health. Unfortunately, my bachelor's is in English, so probably no use there.

Any ideas? Are these jobs real? Should I just crawl back to my parents' sofa and do document review forever? This is not to disparage document review or my parents' sofa, because it's an option I've been seriously considering.
I think it's largely made up by law school career offices. I mean, I guess like knowledge management / being a librarian or research attorney for Westlaw, etc., being a legal recruiter, working with an e-discovery vendor, working in sales for litigation support..... But like, not jobs I think most attorneys would be pumped to move over to.....
I mean, I'm asking because I'm pretty sure I don't want to work as an attorney, so that's not really a bar here. All the "knowledge management" roles I see require a ton of experience, though, and I wouldn't know how to get started in that. I'm also not seeing that Westlaw will let you work anywhere but Minnesota (mostly, and I applied for their remote jobs already), and I can't drive in the snow.

Thank you for your perspective, anyway. I was mostly thinking it was a lie pushed by career services, and I guess it's good to get some confirmation.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 8:06 pm

nixy wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 3:15 pm
The ones I see referenced regularly are HR and compliance, and I do know people who’ve said they have friends who’ve had success getting these jobs. I’m honestly not all that certain what compliance entails, but at least it would be something to research.

(I actually think a lot of attorneys would be thrilled to move over to the other kinds of jobs, in that they don’t like being a lawyer, the difficulty is making the jump.)
I haven't seen anything entry-level in compliance outside the Goldman Sachs-type jobs, but maybe I should look more. I also haven't seen a lot of HR roles where they'll consider someone with no experience, but maybe I should apply for some slightly above entry level ones and see.

The town my parents live in has some secretary-type opportunities, too, so if I completely crack up and have to go home I guess I could do that. I was a secretary for two years before law school and I can still answer a phone.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by jotarokujo » Wed May 19, 2021 8:46 pm

law librarian, reference librarian at westlaw/lexis, law firm reference librarian, academic (though this job very few people would enjoy as it requires producing scholarship), policy, career clerk

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by 2013 » Wed May 19, 2021 9:11 pm

I know a lot of people shit on these jobs, but what about working for a bar prep company? I think they have a salary + commission model and seem pretty chill.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by nixy » Wed May 19, 2021 9:45 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 8:46 pm
academic (though this job very few people would enjoy as it requires producing scholarship)
Probably not an issue for the OP who loves to write, it's more that it's a job very few people can get (though tbf I'd bet most law profs hated practice).

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 19, 2021 10:20 pm

jotarokujo wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 8:46 pm
law librarian, reference librarian at westlaw/lexis, law firm reference librarian, academic (though this job very few people would enjoy as it requires producing scholarship), policy, career clerk
I've considered the library route heavily, but I'd have to go back to school for that as they usually want an MLS and not just a JD, which I was trying to avoid if possible. I did apply for one job that just asked for one or the other, but lost out to someone with an MLS, so there's that.

Career clerk would absolutely be ideal and I'm keeping my eyes open. Those jobs are rare from what I can tell. Some state courts have staff attorneys and I'm looking at those jobs as well, but then they want five years of experience.

I wouldn't hate an academic job, but I don't think I've ever seen one posted. nixy is right that I love writing and wouldn't mind the scholarship element.

I'm unsure how one starts out in a policy-type job, or what they actually do. Any info?

I've applied to Westlaw/Lexis jobs with little success, but good to know others thought of that.

Thanks for your thoughts.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by jotarokujo » Wed May 19, 2021 10:27 pm

don't know too much about policy jobs other than some fellowships, like heritage foundation legal fellowship

another potential job is LSAT tutor - it actually looks better to have a JD than simply a high lsat score so in that sense you didn't "waste" your JD

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by nixy » Thu May 20, 2021 12:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Wed May 19, 2021 10:20 pm
I wouldn't hate an academic job, but I don't think I've ever seen one posted. nixy is right that I love writing and wouldn't mind the scholarship element.
They don't get posted in standard job boards. You'd need to look at academia specific job listings (like Higher Ed Jobs). But also I'd talk to a prof you're on good terms with about how the application process works - it's completely different from lawyer jobs. Also check out https://www.thefacultylounge.org, they discuss this stuff a lot (especially at https://www.thefacultylounge.org/law_school_hiring/). If there are specific schools you're interested in, go to their job postings directly.

Something to consider would be a legal writing prof job, although schools do prefer to hire people with some practice experience and/or a clerkship.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Anonymous User » Sun May 23, 2021 12:59 am

The academic job market is not a serious option for 99.9% of lawyers and in any case takes years to prep for, too long for OP.

My SO used to work in compliance. What you do will depend heavily on what industry you are in and what types of regulatory risk your employer faces. HR is kind of a variety of compliance, just for employment law issues. In general, I wouldn't consider it a writing-intensive job--it's closer to being in-house.

For something short-term, I think clerking could be a good option, though how realistic it is will depend on your credentials and jobs often hire at least a year in advance.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by LawTown » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:10 am

An avenue to consider is quasi or full-on law enforcement. Mostly at the federal level, I would say. Obviously, it would help greatly to have some interest in criminal law. By law, you also need to be under age 37 when you start, to comply with retirement guidelines. Some positions that recruit JDs (not exclusively though) are Secret Service (they do a whole lot more than guard the president), federal probation, FBI, IRS, DEA, and others. Hiring preferences vary greatly by jurisdiction — some departments may actively recruit JDs, while others not at all. The level of hands-on, active law enforcement also varies. While a federal presentence (not supervision) probation officer may work almost exclusively at a desk and write all day long, a DEA agent is often out in the field at 6 a.m., running stakeouts. Here are some pros and cons:

Pros:

-Decent but not great money after a few years, with regular step raises.
-Some departments promote frequently, which can increase salary substantially.
-TSP plan (like a 401k) that increases very fast if you contribute, with additional money put in by the government with every paycheck, at no cost to you.
-4 weeks vacation to start, with paid holidays.
-Overtime at some departments, comp time at most others.
-Telework at many offices. Many federal probation depts. are all WAH or “any 80.”
-Retire after 20 years if you are 50 or older; otherwise after 25 years. Pension is lifetime and solid, with SSI supplement thrown in until mandatory retirement age.
-Strong job security.
-Flexible hours, unlike law firms.
-Having a law degree helps advancement at some agencies.

Cons:

-Little or no actual use of law degree at most positions. It’s not required at any. It could come in handy for agents preparing affidavits or presentence probation officers construing sentencing guidelines.
-Working alongside colleagues who may have much less education but could be in superior positions; some of them, frankly, may not appear to be very bright.
-Can expect some resentment from colleagues who don’t have law degrees.
-Can expect to be “looked down on” by others in the system (practicing lawyers, judges, clerks) who assume you are of lesser intelligence (they probably don’t know you’re a lawyer by training).
-No evidence of law degree in job title. The “esq” is rarely used even by those who have it, and job titles are generic: “Special Agent,” “U.S. Probation Officer” and such.

It’s not for everyone but there are a surprising number of JDs and admitted attorneys in the federal law enforcement system. Most I know decided early on, before finishing law school, that they did not want to practice. Others, like you, practiced law and despised it, which led them to this world.
Something to consider.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by AureliusCapital » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:46 am

Politics.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:58 am

AureliusCapital wrote:
Tue Jun 22, 2021 11:46 am
Politics.
Not really a job but a massive, diverse industry, most of which isn't JD-preferred.

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Re: "JD Preferred"/Non-Practicing Positions?

Post by Lacepiece23 » Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:37 pm

I do feel like a see people with JDs in businessy roles. It’s enough that I don’t stop and wonder how they got it or is this rare. But it’s not enough that I actually take note and stop and think what they do.

I wish I had better for you.

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