Giving Notice - Risk of Firing? Long term impact? Forum

[Anonymous User]

When giving notice, the common rule of thumb is 2-weeks, but have people run across being "fired" then and there or soon thereafter because the firm wants to give you the boot instead of letting you "resign" in 2 weeks? What are the long term repercussions of being "fired" in this context or is it better to not give 2 weeks and just quit if there is a long term repercussion?

[12YrsAnAssociate]

I've never heard of being fired in this circumstance. I've heard of firms saying they'll pay you for 2 weeks but that you don't need to stay. I heard of one employer getting a little antsy because of potential conflicts and also a personality issue, and having the person clean out his office right then. But even then the person wasn't fired, and in fact he ended up back at the firm a few years later.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Same as above - I've never heard of people not being paid for two weeks. The lucky few get told that they don't need to come to the office (pre-Covid), or just stop working and collect the paycheck. At my last firm we had someone who gave 5 weeks notice and got paid for the entire time. He stopped working after 1 or 2 weeks. Last job I quit (at a biglaw firm), I gave two weeks notice and had to work the entire time.

[nixy]

I’m pretty sure if you give notice they can tell you not to come back for the last two weeks, but I don’t think that means they can say they fired you. You’ve already told them you’re leaving. Even if they didn’t pay you for the last 2 weeks (which would be shitty, but I agree that’s not common at all), I don’t really think that’s firing you. And if they want you gone, even if they have it out for you for some reason, it’s really to their benefit to let you resign, because then they can’t be sued and you don’t get unemployment.

So I don’t see any reason to just quit without notice because you think they might fire you - I don’t think it works that way.

I suppose if you’re at a tiny firm run by an irrational tyrant who you know for certain has previously walked people out the door on the day they’ve given notice, maybe that’s different. But then I’d just give notice with the expectation that it might be your last day.

(This is also all assuming you haven’t done anything to get fired for cause, like embezzlement or such.)

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

[AntipodeanPhil]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

Huh? Not sure what you mean when you write about another firm "checking your employment history." Do you mean, what if another firm called your current firm and asked why your employment ended? First, if your current firm told them you were fired when actually you gave notice, your current firm would be lying. Second firms generally don't provide any information about why associates left - there is legal risk to them and no benefit. Generally it's a firm policy. At my prior firm, they would confirm dates of employment and absolutely nothing else. If you wanted them to talk to future employees about anything beyond dates of employment, you had to sign a form and send it to HR. Seems like you're either confused or exceedingly paranoid.

[AntipodeanPhil]

Not sure if this helps, but it reminds me of a story my wife tells. She works in academia and has an ex-colleague who has now been fired three times by universities. Each time, he was fired because he (an unattractive, hirsute, overweight male in his 40s) got in relationships with 18-20 year old students. He has a pattern of singling out vulnerable students. He acts like he wants to help them and then somehow persuades or pushes them into having sex with him. The first and second times he got fired for doing this, he was able to get hired by other universities. Apparently this is because the universities that fired him will only confirm dates of employment, and when asked about why he left, he lies outright. My wife works at the first university that hired him, and they worked this out when a colleague of hers asked a friend she knew at the third university about why they had hired him.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - that is helpful to hear employment dates are all that is provided. It relieves some fear of getting a "fired" on my record after submitting a 2 week notice.

[lolwutpar]

Not sure if this helps, but it reminds me of a story my wife tells. She works in academia and has an ex-colleague who has now been fired three times by universities. Each time, he was fired because he (an unattractive, hirsute, overweight male in his 40s) got in relationships with 18-20 year old students. He has a pattern of singling out vulnerable students. He acts like he wants to help them and then somehow persuades or pushes them into having sex with him. The first and second times he got fired for doing this, he was able to get hired by other universities. Apparently this is because the universities that fired him will only confirm dates of employment, and when asked about why he left, he lies outright. My wife works at the first university that hired him, and they worked this out when a colleague of hers asked a friend she knew at the third university about why they had hired him.

Your wife worked with Humbert Humbert?

[Anonymous User]

OP here - that is helpful to hear employment dates are all that is provided. It relieves some fear of getting a "fired" on my record after submitting a 2 week notice.

Can confirm this was the case when I lateraled (i.e. the reference was just dates and title). Also, firms don't want to "fire" anyone, really. It's uncomfortable for the partners, bad for firm morale, more likely to trigger some costly response from the outgoing individual, and a resignation avoids the implication that one's work is suspect (i.e. the firm could conceivably be tied to malpractice). I have seen anything from two weeks to two months as outgoing time, and that time has been anything from busy to dead quiet. I think it depends a lot on the inclination of the relevant partners, and ultimately how much the associate will play ball. In my case I wasn't in the mood to do anyone any favors, so I responded to e-mails on matters I was involved in before giving notice, but I didn't respond to e-mails in the evenings or weekends and no one gave me any attitude for it.

[nixy]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

What evidence do you have that this would happen? I guess I'm not really sure why you're even worrying about this.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

What evidence do you have that this would happen? I guess I'm not really sure why you're even worrying about this.

At my last firm, this happened routinely (i.e., people walked out by Partners like a criminal on day of resignation) so it's on my mind.

[nixy]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

What evidence do you have that this would happen? I guess I'm not really sure why you're even worrying about this.

At my last firm, this happened routinely (i.e., people walked out by Partners like a criminal on day of resignation) so it's on my mind.

Do you have any evidence that the firm actually told people they were fired? (Versus disagreeing on end date.) Or that the people who resigned had any future repercussions from being walked out? It’s a shitty thing to do but I don’t think it has any other consequences.

[Anonymous User]

OP here - thanks all! And no nothing bad on my part. Not on friendliest terms with a partner, but nothing bad. So let's say if the firm went all revenge and said screw logic and the risk of a wrongful termination claim and said "fired" right after I give notice. How does that impact me long term? I'm assuming if another firm checks my employment history, it'll show "fired" as opposed to resign?

What evidence do you have that this would happen? I guess I'm not really sure why you're even worrying about this.

At my last firm, this happened routinely (i.e., people walked out by Partners like a criminal on day of resignation) so it's on my mind.

Do you have any evidence that the firm actually told people they were fired? (Versus disagreeing on end date.) Or that the people who resigned had any future repercussions from being walked out? It’s a shitty thing to do but I don’t think it has any other consequences.

I mean it's not like we were given their personnel file, but hard to imagine it wasn't a firing when people resigned and partners routinely escorted them out after a loud conversation that everyone in the vicinity hears lol. Not sure about future repercussions, hence my own concern/curiosity on if there is any repercussion.

[hdr]

You give two weeks notice so your employer has enough time to transition your work to other people. Quitting without notice would burn whatever goodwill you've built up. Don't do it unless you're leaving the profession.

It's rare but not unheard of for firms to immediately terminate an associate giving notice. Often it's because a partner is concerned that the associate (likely senior) will take clients. Other times it may involve a particularly crazy partner.* Regardless, being terminated in this scenario certainly wouldn't count as being fired for cause, in case you're ever asked on a background check. Moreover, as others have pointed out, when asked about former employees, law firms (like all major employers) will only confirm dates of employment. They will never offer a reason for departure (and, in this scenario, if they claimed you were fired, you could probably sue for defamation).

*This happened at my old firm after a group of partners left and the remaining partner immediately terminated an associate who gave notice that he was following the partners to the new firm.

[Anonymous User]

You give two weeks notice so your employer has enough time to transition your work to other people. Quitting without notice would burn whatever goodwill you've built up. Don't do it unless you're leaving the profession.

I know it's not really quantifiable, but how bad really is the impact of giving little to no notice before leaving a firm? I'm getting ready to leave my V30 for an in-house gig in July, but I want to collect my special bonus from my firm when it gets paid out at the end of June. I've been slammed all pandemic so I definitely earned it. I'm considering staying through June 30th, giving notice July 1st, and leaving on the 2nd. I would take vacation before this so my matters would have coverage staffing that could continue after I leave. In the downside case (giving proper notice prior to an early July departure and not getting the bonus for BS reasons) I could miss out on around $20k, so it's tough for me to reconcile that against a nebulous risk like lost goodwill.

[Anonymous User]

I agree with you. Unless you want to go back to that firm or have a reason to keep ties open (e.g., your new company is a client) then I would proceed if I were you.

Also, if you ever need to go back to firm life, there are plenty to choose from although someone mayyyy want a reference from your firm but that is all a big "IF".

[lolwutpar]

You give two weeks notice so your employer has enough time to transition your work to other people. Quitting without notice would burn whatever goodwill you've built up. Don't do it unless you're leaving the profession.

I know it's not really quantifiable, but how bad really is the impact of giving little to no notice before leaving a firm? I'm getting ready to leave my V30 for an in-house gig in July, but I want to collect my special bonus from my firm when it gets paid out at the end of June. I've been slammed all pandemic so I definitely earned it. I'm considering staying through June 30th, giving notice July 1st, and leaving on the 2nd. I would take vacation before this so my matters would have coverage staffing that could continue after I leave. In the downside case (giving proper notice prior to an early July departure and not getting the bonus for BS reasons) I could miss out on around $20k, so it's tough for me to reconcile that against a nebulous risk like lost goodwill.

It would piss them off but would be balanced by the fact that you're going in house and a potential client so they can't get too mad at you, ha.

[Anonymous User]

If you want to keep a door open at the firm you're leaving, how do you phrase your notice/resignation when you call the Partners you work closely with and write others?

[hdr]

You give two weeks notice so your employer has enough time to transition your work to other people. Quitting without notice would burn whatever goodwill you've built up. Don't do it unless you're leaving the profession.

I know it's not really quantifiable, but how bad really is the impact of giving little to no notice before leaving a firm? I'm getting ready to leave my V30 for an in-house gig in July, but I want to collect my special bonus from my firm when it gets paid out at the end of June. I've been slammed all pandemic so I definitely earned it. I'm considering staying through June 30th, giving notice July 1st, and leaving on the 2nd. I would take vacation before this so my matters would have coverage staffing that could continue after I leave. In the downside case (giving proper notice prior to an early July departure and not getting the bonus for BS reasons) I could miss out on around $20k, so it's tough for me to reconcile that against a nebulous risk like lost goodwill.

Giving notice the day after getting a bonus and leaving immediately will be received extremely poorly, no matter what. The vacation beforehand only makes it worse. It would be very helpful if you can buy a week of time before starting at the new job.

Perhaps the in-house job will go great and you’ll never need to speak to your firm colleagues again. But if it’s a terrible place to work, or you’re the victim of a layoff, you’ll regret having departed on bad terms.

[Lestersandy]

What is the best practice for notice I’m big law? Two weeks? And tell your practice leader? Is there always a chance they walk you out the door right then and there?

[The Lsat Airbender]

What is the best practice for notice I’m big law? Two weeks? And tell your practice leader? Is there always a chance they walk you out the door right then and there?

Yes, yes and yes.