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How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 1:43 pm
by Anonymous User
My midlaw firm only releases first-year pay and it's non-market so there's really no benchmark. Am I just out of luck and do I have to hope that their pay increase is good, or are there acceptable ways to actually ask somebody? I'm guessing asking a senior associate could be an option if I'm friends with someone, but are there any other appropriate means by which I can learn more about the firm's pay scale?
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:24 pm
by Sackboy
You could ask your recruiting folks if the firm has an internally published lock-step pay scale. Otherwise, the senior associate is probably your best bet.
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 2:42 pm
by Anonymous User
Sackboy wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 2:24 pm
You could ask your recruiting folks if the firm has an internally published lock-step pay scale. Otherwise, the senior associate is probably your best bet.
Thanks! So it's not considered weird or distasteful to ask the firm directly? Would this be something I should save until I start officially after graduation, or is this okay to ask after getting a 2L summer offer or a post-2L return offer?
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:20 pm
by publius365
Firm should have an internal associate compensation schedule explaining how raises and performance/discretionary bonuses work. Ask away after receiving your offer.
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Mon May 10, 2021 3:23 pm
by Anonymous User
publius365 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:20 pm
Firm should have an internal associate compensation schedule explaining how raises and performance/discretionary bonuses work. Ask away after receiving your offer.
Thanks. Would this offer be a 2L SA offer or the return offer? Or does it not matter?
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am
by publius365
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:23 pm
publius365 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:20 pm
Firm should have an internal associate compensation schedule explaining how raises and performance/discretionary bonuses work. Ask away after receiving your offer.
Thanks. Would this offer be a 2L SA offer or the return offer? Or does it not matter?
I think you could do it at either time, so long as this is a firm where a return offer for a 2L summer usually translates into a full-time offer post-graduation. You're trying to determine whether you want to be employed with them after graduation, and compensation is obviously a significant component of employment decisions — no reputable firm should look askance if you ask for this logical information (so long as you aren't asking on the first week of your 1L summer program — because at that point you should be focused on your work, and not presuming that you will be receiving an offer).
If a firm is cagey about providing you with this information, find a different firm to work at. There may be some exceptions where compensation is black box or becomes black box for mid-level associates (think Jones Day). I'm not sure what kind of information you will garner in those circumstances, but you still should be able to get a ballpark picture of what your compensation could look like, even if it will vary within some range.
But in general, firms aren't naive about this. It's a normal employment question to ask for firms that don't follow market. Just be tactful about it. I'd specifically ask the summer coordinator (if they are a non-attorney) if they can provide you with the relevant materials regarding associate compensation.
Re: How to find out pay scale at firms that only publish their first-year compensation?
Posted: Tue May 11, 2021 6:49 pm
by Anonymous User
publius365 wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:58 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:23 pm
publius365 wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 3:20 pm
Firm should have an internal associate compensation schedule explaining how raises and performance/discretionary bonuses work. Ask away after receiving your offer.
Thanks. Would this offer be a 2L SA offer or the return offer? Or does it not matter?
I think you could do it at either time, so long as this is a firm where a return offer for a 2L summer usually translates into a full-time offer post-graduation. You're trying to determine whether you want to be employed with them after graduation, and compensation is obviously a significant component of employment decisions — no reputable firm should look askance if you ask for this logical information (so long as you aren't asking on the first week of your 1L summer program — because at that point you should be focused on your work, and not presuming that you will be receiving an offer).
If a firm is cagey about providing you with this information, find a different firm to work at. There may be some exceptions where compensation is black box or becomes black box for mid-level associates (think Jones Day). I'm not sure what kind of information you will garner in those circumstances, but you still should be able to get a ballpark picture of what your compensation could look like, even if it will vary within some range.
But in general, firms aren't naive about this. It's a normal employment question to ask for firms that don't follow market. Just be tactful about it. I'd specifically ask the summer coordinator (if they are a non-attorney) if they can provide you with the relevant materials regarding associate compensation.
That was really helpful. Thank you so much!