Non-billable requirement? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hey all! I'm planning to lateral, but have a question on non-billables. Do all big law firms have non-billable requirements? Like you must do 200 hours of non-billables in addition to the standard 1900 to 2000 billable hours? I have a friend at a big law who says she does 300 non-billable hours in addition to 2000 billable as a requirement (effectively 2300 hours a year). Any insight is greatly appreciated!

Also, if people can share which firms have such requirements, that'd be super awesome!

[Sackboy]

I've never head of it to that extreme (i.e. 300 hours). I've heard people having to put in like 50 hours a year in practice area development (i.e. knowledge management) or firm service, but I think that's rare too. I do know some firms out there that let you count 100-200 of what would typically be non-billable and non-pro bono work as billable though, so that's nice (though, they are generally regional firms and not traditional biglaw).

[Anonymous User]

OP here, my friend is at another firm, but for example, I came across this "Hours can be demanding and unpredictable, and associates have a 1,950 billable-hour requirement, plus 350 nonbillables." from Vault for Morrison Fo. So this isn't the norm? The only normal big law requirement is billable hours and not additional hours like this?

[Anonymous User]

Latham is 1900 no written limit on probono or knowledge management hours counting to that 1900 (though i think unwritten is that 80% of your work needs to be billable or you'll get a talking to and that percentage grows as you get more senior or care about promotion). There is no "unbillable" requirement and I feel like quitting someone's else's job for them if they're expected to do that shit to the tune of 2300 hours. 2300 hours is suicide watch imo.

caveat is if you hate your family and friends might be a good fit

[NewSouthernAssociate]

It’s going to depend on your group and partners as well. For example, at my old firm, my practice group had a blog, and each associate was required to publish a few articles a year. At my current firm, the junior associates in my group get stuck preparing the PowerPoint slides for the partners’ CLE presentations, which is usually a few times a year (because it’s hard to say no when your partner asks you directly). My current firm at least counts unlimited business development hours toward our hours requirement.

[Anonymous User]

Latham is 1900 no written limit on probono or knowledge management hours counting to that 1900 (though i think unwritten is that 80% of your work needs to be billable or you'll get a talking to and that percentage grows as you get more senior or care about promotion). There is no "unbillable" requirement and I feel like quitting someone's else's job for them if they're expected to do that shit to the tune of 2300 hours. 2300 hours is suicide watch imo.

caveat is if you hate your family and friends might be a good fit

OP here. It sure seems like a crazy amount of hours, right? How many non-billable hours would you say you do at Latham?

[Anonymous User]

It’s going to depend on your group and partners as well. For example, at my old firm, my practice group had a blog, and each associate was required to publish a few articles a year. At my current firm, the junior associates in my group get stuck preparing the PowerPoint slides for the partners’ CLE presentations, which is usually a few times a year (because it’s hard to say no when your partner asks you directly). My current firm at least counts unlimited business development hours toward our hours requirement.

How many hours would you say you spend on such tasks though (if you had to estimate)?

[Anonymous User]

I think this is more true of regional biglaw and non-market biglaw firms.

Anon because this would probably out me with my other posts.

I think that firms like Akerman LLP, Polsinelli, and Nelson Mullins have a stated billable requirement and a total hours requirement. I think the delta is 300 or so hours. Those remaining 300 hours can be billable, pro Bono, or biz dev (with a preference for biz dev).

But traditional biglaw firms don’t have this requirement because they don’t rely as heavily on biz dev.

[Anonymous User]

My firm, Venable, has a 1900 billable + 300 extra hours requirement. The extra 300 can be anything (e.g. billable, pro bono, admin) and I've been told PTO counted too.

[Anonymous User]

Latham is 1900 no written limit on probono or knowledge management hours counting to that 1900 (though i think unwritten is that 80% of your work needs to be billable or you'll get a talking to and that percentage grows as you get more senior or care about promotion). There is no "unbillable" requirement and I feel like quitting someone's else's job for them if they're expected to do that shit to the tune of 2300 hours. 2300 hours is suicide watch imo.

caveat is if you hate your family and friends might be a good fit

OP here. It sure seems like a crazy amount of hours, right? How many non-billable hours would you say you do at Latham?

Multiple sources told me the 1900 hours target doesn't apply to NY office junior associates (so if they billed only say 1800 they will still be fine). is that true?

[Sackboy]

Multiple sources told me the 1900 hours target doesn't apply to NY office junior associates (so if they billed only say 1800 they will still be fine). is that true?

You can probably bill 1700 at most biglaw firms for a year or two and be fine, especially as a junior.

[Anonymous User]

Multiple sources told me the 1900 hours target doesn't apply to NY office junior associates (so if they billed only say 1800 they will still be fine). is that true?

You can probably bill 1700 at most biglaw firms for a year or two and be fine, especially as a junior.

I was asking about Latham, they have a 1900 target for hours, but some ppl told me that doesn't apply to ny juniors, just wish to confirm

[Anonymous User]

My firm, Venable, has a 1900 billable + 300 extra hours requirement. The extra 300 can be anything (e.g. billable, pro bono, admin) and I've been told PTO counted too.

Oh interesting. Did you know this requirement before joining? (If yes, is there somewhere to find this info?) Is it easy or difficult to meet the extra 300 hours requirement? Are there consequences for not meeting it?

[Anonymous User]

I think this is more true of regional biglaw and non-market biglaw firms.

Anon because this would probably out me with my other posts.

I think that firms like Akerman LLP, Polsinelli, and Nelson Mullins have a stated billable requirement and a total hours requirement. I think the delta is 300 or so hours. Those remaining 300 hours can be billable, pro Bono, or biz dev (with a preference for biz dev).

But traditional biglaw firms don’t have this requirement because they don’t rely as heavily on biz dev.

How does one differentiate traditional big law with the regional or non-market big law firms? Is there a way to figure out which firms require this nonbillable hours requirement?

[Sackboy]

How does one differentiate traditional big law with the regional or non-market big law firms? Is there a way to figure out which firms require this nonbillable hours requirement?

Generally, traditional biglaw is going to be the Vault 100/AmLaw 100 and to a lesser extent the AmLaw 200. Once you get into the AmLaw 200 territory you start to see a lot of regional and non-market firms. As for hours, you're going to have to look at NALP, Vault, and online fora like this one to find out hours info, other than asking associates directly.

[Anonymous User]

My firm, Venable, has a 1900 billable + 300 extra hours requirement. The extra 300 can be anything (e.g. billable, pro bono, admin) and I've been told PTO counted too.

Oh interesting. Did you know this requirement before joining? (If yes, is there somewhere to find this info?) Is it easy or difficult to meet the extra 300 hours requirement? Are there consequences for not meeting it?

I didn't know about the 300-hours requirement before I started at the firm but I did know about the 1900 hours. They also told us before starting that for those in their first year at the firm, the req. was 1800+400 hours. I think this 1800 req includes laterals,
but I'm not certain.

It's not hard to meet, and I'm not sure what the consequences are, given that I haven't heard of anyone at the firm who hasn't met it.

[Anonymous User]

My v100 has a 1900 hour requirement, 1950 for pathetic bonus, and then 200 hundred non-billable requirement. But the non-billable requirement is fulfilled by things like practice group meetings, CLE's, admin work, as well as bizdev so it is not hard to meet