First years - anyone else miserable? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Not to totally derail the thread, but how unusual it is to generally enjoy the work? Do I think it's the most engaging job in the world? No--but I think I've been pleasantly surprised that I've had a more positive experience and enjoy my work significantly more than most of my friends-- although this might be skewed by my experiences with the teams that I've worked on. Also, its definitely not because I'm cruising because I've certainly been billing like crazy (albeit less than some of the extreme cases I've heard). How much of a psychotic masochist am I?

Please take your joy and contentment elsewhere. Can't I even have my misery in peace?! Let me wallow!

[TLSReturntoWork]

Not to totally derail the thread, but how unusual it is to generally enjoy the work? Do I think it's the most engaging job in the world? No--but I think I've been pleasantly surprised that I've had a more positive experience and enjoy my work significantly more than most of my friends-- although this might be skewed by my experiences with the teams that I've worked on. Also, its definitely not because I'm cruising because I've certainly been billing like crazy (albeit less than some of the extreme cases I've heard). How much of a psychotic masochist am I?

Honestly, I actually like some of the work I do-- I love research and writing. What I hate about my firm is that it's a disorganized mess, no one talks to anyone else, most of my work comes from other offices, and I'm constantly either worried about my hours or drowning in way too much work. I also hate that you can tell all of the associates are miserable. They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

Not to totally derail the thread, but how unusual it is to generally enjoy the work? Do I think it's the most engaging job in the world? No--but I think I've been pleasantly surprised that I've had a more positive experience and enjoy my work significantly more than most of my friends-- although this might be skewed by my experiences with the teams that I've worked on. Also, its definitely not because I'm cruising because I've certainly been billing like crazy (albeit less than some of the extreme cases I've heard). How much of a psychotic masochist am I?

Honestly, I actually like some of the work I do-- I love research and writing. What I hate about my firm is that it's a disorganized mess, no one talks to anyone else, most of my work comes from other offices, and I'm constantly either worried about my hours or drowning in way too much work. I also hate that you can tell all of the associates are miserable. They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

[Anonymous User]

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

Some people have “hobbies” or “families” or “friends.” Those people probably like being cordial and pleasant with colleagues but efficient during work so they can have as much actual life as possible, which they have the option but not obligation of spending part of with their colleagues.

My sense is that the desire for work “friends” is highly dependent on age/maturity, which is correlated with how boring people are in terms of experiences and personality.

[jotarokujo]

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

Some people have “hobbies” or “families” or “friends.” Those people probably like being cordial and pleasant with colleagues but efficient during work so they can have as much actual life as possible.

My sense is that the desire for work “friends” is highly dependent on age/maturity, which is correlated with how boring people are in terms of experiences and personality.

it was like this in law school. older students (30+), especially those with families, tended to treat law school like a 9-6 job and just be super efficient, while making fewer friends at the law school. younger straight throughs were more likely to have law school take up like 80+ hours a week but socialized more during that time.

[Anonymous User]

Not to totally derail the thread, but how unusual it is to generally enjoy the work? Do I think it's the most engaging job in the world? No--but I think I've been pleasantly surprised that I've had a more positive experience and enjoy my work significantly more than most of my friends-- although this might be skewed by my experiences with the teams that I've worked on. Also, its definitely not because I'm cruising because I've certainly been billing like crazy (albeit less than some of the extreme cases I've heard). How much of a psychotic masochist am I?

Honestly, I actually like some of the work I do-- I love research and writing. What I hate about my firm is that it's a disorganized mess, no one talks to anyone else, most of my work comes from other offices, and I'm constantly either worried about my hours or drowning in way too much work. I also hate that you can tell all of the associates are miserable. They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

I think this is a prime example of different firm cultures. I for one would hate working in an office where no one talked to each other and wasn’t very friendly. I specifically turned down an offer when I was told by an associate that it would be weird at their firm for someone to just pop in to someone’s office for a chat. Some people want work to be nothing more than where you go to clock in and clock out, while others prefer to work in a more social setting, even if the latter means you spend a little more time at work.

[TLSReturntoWork]

They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

It's my job to be your colleague, but no colleague is obligated to be your friend. Forcing that expectation on colleagues because you failed to do it in your personal life is awful and no one should have to deal with that. Expecting your colleagues to make up for what you lack in your personal life is just like men expecting women to coddle and nurture them. Not my job.

[basketofbread]

They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

It's my job to be your colleague, but no colleague is obligated to be your friend. Forcing that expectation on colleagues because you failed to do it in your personal life is awful and no one should have to deal with that. Expecting your colleagues to make up for what you lack in your personal life is just like men expecting women to coddle and nurture them. Not my job.

Yeah I despise the attitude of people like the person you’re replying to. As if big law is literal war and you need to be emotionally bonded to your colleagues to trust one another to effectively work together. I like the occasional work hang out / enjoy my colleagues as much as the next guy, but the idea that you need to get drunk with a partner or else you’ll be worse at turning his comments at midnight is outlandishly stupid.

[lawlo]

Kirkland associates have entered the chat.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland associates have entered the chat.

Could you explain?

[jotarokujo]

They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

It's my job to be your colleague, but no colleague is obligated to be your friend. Forcing that expectation on colleagues because you failed to do it in your personal life is awful and no one should have to deal with that. Expecting your colleagues to make up for what you lack in your personal life is just like men expecting women to coddle and nurture them. Not my job.

Yeah I despise the attitude of people like the person you’re replying to. As if big law is literal war and you need to be emotionally bonded to your colleagues to trust one another to effectively work together. I like the occasional work hang out / enjoy my colleagues as much as the next guy, but the idea that you need to get drunk with a partner or else you’ll be worse at turning his comments at midnight is outlandishly stupid.

i despise the attitude of forcing people to make friends with colleagues, but i dont think people who make friends in forced/stressful situations are failures or bad in any way. i made great friends in law school and biglaw because of the camaraderie and partially because we were forced to be together. so people who make friends at work are fine, but people who dislike people who don't do so are a problem.

[Anonymous User]

They don't have the time or the inclination to make friends with you.

...and also discovery as a whole can die in a fire, thanks.

Is this a bad thing? I like not having people who want to pop in and ask me about non-work things while I try to use the limited time I have to get work done. I dread going back to the office and having those conversations that waste time. Time is precious in biglaw, especially when you are constantly receiving day-of, nearly hour-of deadlines. As long as I'm doing work and my seniors are happy enough to continue saying good things about me during performance reviews, I don't give a fuck if we're friends. I want my direct reports like paralegals to like working for me (to the extent one can like working for others) and feel respected by me, because of how I talk to them and refuse to give them unreasonable deadlines, so I make efforts to be friendly there. And I'll do the same to the incoming first-years, but that's about as far as the friendliness goes. Doesn't mean I'm a dick to everyone else. But pls dont waste my time trying to be work friends. Have non-work friends.

By definition, our job makes us colleagues. Let that be enough and make the personal efforts outside of work, where they are most welcome.

You sound super fun to work with... Given that we have to spend the overwhelming majority of our waking hours at work, having friends at the office makes the experience way better and I would personally HATE working somewhere where people had an attitude like this. The only thing that makes this job semi-tolerable is the “in the trenches” camaraderie of the associates.

It's my job to be your colleague, but no colleague is obligated to be your friend. Forcing that expectation on colleagues because you failed to do it in your personal life is awful and no one should have to deal with that. Expecting your colleagues to make up for what you lack in your personal life is just like men expecting women to coddle and nurture them. Not my job.

Yeah I despise the attitude of people like the person you’re replying to. As if big law is literal war and you need to be emotionally bonded to your colleagues to trust one another to effectively work together. I like the occasional work hang out / enjoy my colleagues as much as the next guy, but the idea that you need to get drunk with a partner or else you’ll be worse at turning his comments at midnight is outlandishly stupid.

i despise the attitude of forcing people to make friends with colleagues, but i dont think people who make friends in forced/stressful situations are failures or bad in any way. i made great friends in law school and biglaw because of the camaraderie and partially because we were forced to be together. so people who make friends at work are fine, but people who dislike people who don't do so are a problem.

Agree with this. Something is wrong with colleagues who force others to make friends/hang out outside of work but it is equally odd/wrong to treat colleagues who do want to make friends as losers/failures who don't have personal life and are immature. Some of the comments here are just overly judgmental/strange.

I personally like to keep work/personal life separate and rarely meet colleagues outside of work but I've found that camaraderie of associates complaining/commiserating together do make this job a bit more bearable.

[basketofbread]

I agree with both of you. I have friends at work and it certainly does make work more bearable / enjoyable. No judgment there. I resent the idea that it’s necessary to be in person during the work week / bond in person in order to perform the job adequately. I don’t think that’s true. I care about doing work well because I want to not get fired, not because I want to do well for my friends.

[Anonymous User]

Not to totally derail the thread, but how unusual it is to generally enjoy the work? Do I think it's the most engaging job in the world? No--but I think I've been pleasantly surprised that I've had a more positive experience and enjoy my work significantly more than most of my friends-- although this might be skewed by my experiences with the teams that I've worked on. Also, its definitely not because I'm cruising because I've certainly been billing like crazy (albeit less than some of the extreme cases I've heard). How much of a psychotic masochist am I?

Please take your joy and contentment elsewhere. Can't I even have my misery in peace?! Let me wallow!

As the bolded anon here, what I meant is that the people I work with are actively unhelpful and lean more toward ignoring you than answering your question about an assignment. I don't want to be "friends" like hanging out with them after work. I mean I want people being cordial at the bare minimum.

And I quoted the wrong thing, but I was the one who said people couldn't be bothered to make friends. I don't expect them to be actual friends. I expect them to not actively be jerks.

[Anonymous User]

I view it in the same way as my other social circles. I have my high school friends, college friends, work friends, etc. I enjoy the camaraderie of my "work friends" and the part I really miss a lot though is seeing work friends at the office and huddling into each others offices or getting lunch or coffee together to talk shit on a psycho partner, catch up on other office politics and drama, bitch about pay and bonuses, and so on.