Funds Lawyer at STB/Deb/KE, What are your hours? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Incoming first-year at one of the big Funds groups, I know firms have been swamped with work lately and I'm trying to get a sense of what the hours might be like when I start. I know generally Funds has been said to be fairly predictable in terms of hours, is this still true?

[Anonymous User]

I have a friend who is a midlevel in one of these groups and he told me the other day: "The stability once you're a mid is nice, but jesus christ RIP juniors and thank god i'm not one of them anymore. If I had to do it over again I'd have just juniored at less of a deathly sweatshop and tried to lateral over as a midlevel to avoid that shitshow. But I dunno maybe it sucks equally everywhere, but I doubt it"

[Anonymous User]

I have a friend who is a midlevel in one of these groups and he told me the other day: "The stability once you're a mid is nice, but jesus christ RIP juniors and thank god i'm not one of them anymore. If I had to do it over again I'd have just juniored at less of a deathly sweatshop and tried to lateral over as a midlevel to avoid that shitshow. But I dunno maybe it sucks equally everywhere, but I doubt it"

Is this firm specific or does it apply to all 3 firms mentioned by OP?

[Anonymous User]

I have a friend who is a midlevel in one of these groups and he told me the other day: "The stability once you're a mid is nice, but jesus christ RIP juniors and thank god i'm not one of them anymore. If I had to do it over again I'd have just juniored at less of a deathly sweatshop and tried to lateral over as a midlevel to avoid that shitshow. But I dunno maybe it sucks equally everywhere, but I doubt it"

Is this firm specific or does it apply to all 3 firms mentioned by OP?

Not the previous poster, but a senior associate in funds elsewhere and have heard similar* comments from x-KE juniors fairly routinely across a variety of practice groups, but I've also anecdotally heard similar comments about STB, Deb and more than a handful of other places.

*It's been a while since I've heard "the stability is nice"... things have been pretty busy, but that's definitely a common funds vs. M&A/CapM trope.

[Anonymous User]

What about lower ranked fund formation groups like Ropes, Fried frank, Cleary, and Goodwin?

Are hours like M&A there too?

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry double post

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

[Sackboy]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

Not to be rude, but 2,400 is a lot of hours. Saying you don't mind putting in that type of work without having worked it is naive, at best.

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

Not to be rude, but 2,400 is a lot of hours. Saying you don't mind putting in that type of work without having worked it is naive, at best.

I think the more general point was valuing the stability of the hours/workload over the sheer amount of hours - not that the latter is something to dismiss.

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

[anonbanker]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

at least that's predictable though

[RaceJudicata]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

Read your sentence out loud a few times and think long and hard about whether you are actually ok with a 9am to 9-10pm schedule.

[Anonymous User]

Is this other peoples' feeling about second-tier fund groups too? 2400 per year?

[M458]

Is this other peoples' feeling about second-tier fund groups too? 2400 per year?

Right now every group is slammed - it's closer to 2600+ (and I know some creeping up higher than that) at the large funds practices and 2300-2400+ at the other reputable practices. Who knows when this will slow down, but sponsors are going wild raising money.

[Anonymous User]

Is this other peoples' feeling about second-tier fund groups too? 2400 per year?

Right now every group is slammed - it's closer to 2600+ (and I know some creeping up higher than that) at the large funds practices and 2300-2400+ at the other reputable practices. Who knows when this will slow down, but sponsors are going wild raising money.

When it does slow down, how many hours are "normally" billed for a junior in funds, on average?

[Anonymous User]

Is this other peoples' feeling about second-tier fund groups too? 2400 per year?

Right now every group is slammed - it's closer to 2600+ (and I know some creeping up higher than that) at the large funds practices and 2300-2400+ at the other reputable practices. Who knows when this will slow down, but sponsors are going wild raising money.

When it does slow down, how many hours are "normally" billed for a junior in funds, on average?

There's no "normal" in big law - there's stability in the top practices in knowing that you'll pretty much always be busy during any trailing 12 mos. period, but the lower-ranked or lesser known practices are arguably worse off now because they don't have armies of juniors and there is nowhere to hide. And even in funds 9-9/10 is not really an option--there are less all-nighters than M&A but people are pushing to get docs out faster than ever these days, to the point where particularly the more transactional side of the practice is beginning to look more and more like M&A (but with smaller teams).

[legalpotato]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

at least that's predictable though

Agreed w/ this. Have done well over 2400 hours in past years. I would take 2400 predictable hours over 2200 unpredictable hours. If I can know I will work 9-9 on weekdays and then 9-1pm on weekends, but know that I am done for the day after I knock off at 1 PM. Way better than waiting around Sat morning cause you think something might be coming down the pipe, and then deciding to go out during the afternoon because you think you must be in the clear, and then, as you arrive at your destination, getting an email that is going to require you to work the rest of the night.

[rapmasterg]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

at least that's predictable though

Agreed w/ this. Have done well over 2400 hours in past years. I would take 2400 predictable hours over 2200 unpredictable hours. If I can know I will work 9-9 on weekdays and then 9-1pm on weekends, but know that I am done for the day after I knock off at 1 PM. Way better than waiting around Sat morning cause you think something might be coming down the pipe, and then deciding to go out during the afternoon because you think you must be in the clear, and then, as you arrive at your destination, getting an email that is going to require you to work the rest of the night.

No one in my Funds group is working 9-9, 9-midnight is about minimum. Weekends you could get away with a few hours here and there though.

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

at least that's predictable though

Agreed w/ this. Have done well over 2400 hours in past years. I would take 2400 predictable hours over 2200 unpredictable hours. If I can know I will work 9-9 on weekdays and then 9-1pm on weekends, but know that I am done for the day after I knock off at 1 PM. Way better than waiting around Sat morning cause you think something might be coming down the pipe, and then deciding to go out during the afternoon because you think you must be in the clear, and then, as you arrive at your destination, getting an email that is going to require you to work the rest of the night.

No one in my Funds group is working 9-9, 9-midnight is about minimum. Weekends you could get away with a few hours here and there though.

Ok I work in one of these groups and nobody is working 9-midnight on a consistent basis throughout the year.

That might be the norm during busier periods but you will definitely have slower weeks or months. For a jr associate low 2000 hrs is probably a reasonable expectation.

[Anonymous User]

There are so many mega funds right now, where I am at, I would be shocked to find out a first year is not on at least one mega fund. Honestly 9 to midnight is more common than 9 to 9 right now.

[Anonymous User]

1st year in Funds at one of the above places. Likely to hit 2400.

OP here - I don't mind putting in 2400 billable hours, as long as my schedule is somewhat predictable/stable (e.g. 9am-9/10pm) as opposed to having the unpredictable ups and downs of, say, M&A.

2400 hours means you'll predictably have zero free time.

at least that's predictable though

Agreed w/ this. Have done well over 2400 hours in past years. I would take 2400 predictable hours over 2200 unpredictable hours. If I can know I will work 9-9 on weekdays and then 9-1pm on weekends, but know that I am done for the day after I knock off at 1 PM. Way better than waiting around Sat morning cause you think something might be coming down the pipe, and then deciding to go out during the afternoon because you think you must be in the clear, and then, as you arrive at your destination, getting an email that is going to require you to work the rest of the night.

No one in my Funds group is working 9-9, 9-midnight is about minimum. Weekends you could get away with a few hours here and there though.

Ok I work in one of these groups and nobody is working 9-midnight on a consistent basis throughout the year.

That might be the norm during busier periods but you will definitely have slower weeks or months. For a jr associate low 2000 hrs is probably a reasonable expectation.

Not sure of the previous poster is at KE, but I've heard the hours at their funds group differs from even the other top funds groups

[Anonymous User]

Double post

[Anonymous User]

I’m at one of the firms the OP mentioned in the title. Our team is constantly busy and it’s been even busier since covid began. I would expect our team is on track for (at least) 2500 average this year. Can confirm that 9-midnight, give or take and some weekend work is typical

[Anonymous User]

I’m at one of the firms the OP mentioned in the title. Our team is constantly busy and it’s been even busier since covid began. I would expect our team is on track for (at least) 2500 average this year. Can confirm that 9-midnight, give or take and some weekend work is typical

This is probably a very stupid question but what is it that funds lawyers do - are we talking fund formation and primary and secondary investments (everything above the portfolio company level)?

Is a funds practice generally more difficult to get into? Can you get into a funds practice if you've joined a firm's M&A's practice?