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I've just finished a callback with an Amlaw 200 firm that is looking to expand a small satellite office of theirs. When I first interviewed with them in March, their website listed three associates for that office, one of whom was a first year that had started in January. During my callback today I spoke with the other two associates plus several partners. Near the end of my interview the managing partner said something like "well, now that you've met everyone..."

I was confused as I had thought there were three associates, so I checked the firm website again and she's no longer listed. I was really curious so I looked her up on LinkedIn and she had her employment dates at the firm as January-March 2021 and she also posted an "open to work" message last week. It looks like she was let go.

Am I right that this is a huge red flag? What kind of firm fires a first-year after two months? (I would probably be entering as a third year.) Is there a way to tactfully bring this up if I were to get an offer?

How long have the other two associates been there? The first-year associate may have just quit on his/her own.

It’s possible she failed the bar last fall and then again in February. Most firms only give two tries.

2013 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:43 pm

How long have the other two associates been there? The first-year associate may have just quit on his/her own.

Five and six years. I also don't think she failed the bar as she calls herself an attorney on LinkedIn, but who knows. One thing that gives me pause is that during my first interview, the managing partner said he ideally wanted to hire two associates for the office, but then kind of muttered "or maybe three." Now it feels like he knew that she was going to leave.

Be a complete alpha and message the associate on linkedin and ask how she liked working there

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:23 pm

Be a complete alpha and message the associate on linkedin and ask how she liked working there

Is that actually alpha? I would do that no question. Worst case, the person just doesn't reply. Of course, if they do reply, you may have to take what they say with a grain of salt (but some direct data is better than random anonymous TLS opinions).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:07 pm

2013 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:43 pm

How long have the other two associates been there? The first-year associate may have just quit on his/her own.

Five and six years. I also don't think she failed the bar as she calls herself an attorney on LinkedIn, but who knows. One thing that gives me pause is that during my first interview, the managing partner said he ideally wanted to hire two associates for the office, but then kind of muttered "or maybe three." Now it feels like he knew that she was going to leave.

I think the 5 and 6 years is more telling than the 2 months. There are always going to be people who don’t stay at places for a number of reasons.

Honestly, just ask one of the associates why the other associate left. They’ll probably tell you (off the record, of course). Attorneys love to gossip.

MarcusH wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:55 pm

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:23 pm

Be a complete alpha and message the associate on linkedin and ask how she liked working there

Is that actually alpha? I would do that no question. Worst case, the person just doesn't reply. Of course, if they do reply, you may have to take what they say with a grain of salt (but some direct data is better than random anonymous TLS opinions).

Agreed w/ all

2013 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:07 pm

2013 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:43 pm

How long have the other two associates been there? The first-year associate may have just quit on his/her own.

Five and six years. I also don't think she failed the bar as she calls herself an attorney on LinkedIn, but who knows. One thing that gives me pause is that during my first interview, the managing partner said he ideally wanted to hire two associates for the office, but then kind of muttered "or maybe three." Now it feels like he knew that she was going to leave.

I think the 5 and 6 years is more telling than the 2 months. There are always going to be people who don’t stay at places for a number of reasons.

Honestly, just ask one of the associates why the other associate left. They’ll probably tell you (off the record, of course). Attorneys love to gossip.

This

Check the relevant state bar website to see if she's licensed to practice law; if not, it probably means she failed twice. If she's licensed then I wouldn't hesitate to message her on LinkedIn.

legalpotato wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 11:42 pm

MarcusH wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:55 pm

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 22, 2021 10:23 pm

Be a complete alpha and message the associate on linkedin and ask how she liked working there

Is that actually alpha? I would do that no question. Worst case, the person just doesn't reply. Of course, if they do reply, you may have to take what they say with a grain of salt (but some direct data is better than random anonymous TLS opinions).

Agreed w/ all

Yeah I mean I did this repeatedly (messaged junior people that I saw that left practice group I was interested in after short time) this past OCI cycle. One ignored me, two others responded to say it was a great group. I obviously didnt push back and say "so why did you leave" or whatever (and they might just be saying it was good so they dont violate some non disparage agreement or something), but its at least worth messaging. just be normal like "I noticed you briefly worked there, I am considering it but its hard to get a read on it since its a new office. i would appreciate any insight you could provide and good luck." if someone did this with me with any past job, i would be happy to share a few insights.