Top Law Schools

Can a good Samaritan please post the list for the rest of us to dissect?

.

Nope, those are still last year's numbers.

It doesnt look updated. PPEPs for DPW and KE are above $6M as far as I know, 6.3 and 6.1, respectively?

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

What do you mean by ranking? It looks like all ranking is in line with their total revenue numbers. Are you saying only the revenue numbers are new? It doesnt look like it to me.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Sorry ignore me, just found the list. I'll compile the rankings right now and post them

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Sorry ignore me, just found the list. I'll compile the rankings right now and post them

Muchas gracias

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Sorry ignore me, just found the list. I'll compile the rankings right now and post them

Muchas gracias

Should be able to see it here

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Sorry ignore me, just found the list. I'll compile the rankings right now and post them

Muchas gracias

Should be able to see it here

Firm Name PPEP Rank RPL Rank Gross Revenue Rank
[*][*][*]Wachtell $7,500,000 1 $3,645,000 1 $1,010,664,000 41
Davis Polk $6,350,000 2 $1,806,000 3 $1,770,000,000 15
Kirkland & Ellis $6,194,000 3 $1,772,000 4 $4,830,000,000 1
Paul, Weiss $5,369,000 4 $1,518,000 13 $1,543,730,000 20
Simpson Thacher $5,232,000 5 $1,767,000 5 $1,844,627,000 14
Sullivan & Cromwell $5,185,000 6 $1,925,000 2 $1,555,441,000 18
Quinn Emanuel $4,669,000 7 $1,585,000 11 $1,301,077,000 28
Cravath $4,576,000 8 $1,591,000 10 $824,341,000 56
Cahill $4,570,000 9 $1,600,000 8 $444,400,000 91
Debevoise $4,554,000 10 $1,594,000 9 $1,224,942,000 31
Latham & Watkins $4,520,000 11 $1,516,000 15 $4,333,763,000 2
Weil, Gotshal $4,515,000 12 $1,465,000 16 $1,657,603,000 17
Milbank $4,492,000 13 $1,542,000 12 $1,235,499,000 30
Skadden, Arps $4,308,000 14 $1,671,000 7 $2,662,890,000 5
Gibson, Dunn $4,125,000 15 $1,517,000 14 $2,160,542,000 12
Paul Hastings $3,903,000 16 $1,383,000 22 $1,310,126,000 27
Cleary Gottlieb $3,671,000 17 $1,122,000 43 $1,223,119,000 32
Fried, Frank $3,622,000 18 $1,427,000 20 $780,300,000 60
Willkie $3,516,000 19 $1,297,000 26 $986,000,000 44
King & Spalding $3,509,000 20 $1,255,000 30 $1,529,418,000 21
Ropes & Gray $3,374,000 21 $1,690,000 6 $2,192,810,000 11
Schulte $3,239,000 22 $1,278,000 28 $444,700,000 90
Fragomen $3,234,000 23 $1,269,000 29 $787,305,000 58
Cooley $3,178,000 24 $1,448,000 18 $1,552,149,000 19
Sidley Austin $3,095,000 25 $1,309,000 25 $2,462,935,000 6
Wilson Sonsini $3,054,000 26 $1,285,000 27 $1,130,000,000 36
Akin Gump $3,023,000 27 $1,346,000 24 $1,208,738,000 33
White Case $3,017,000 28 $1,058,000 50 $2,387,800,000 8
Vinson & Elkins $2,941,000 29 $1,174,000 37 $782,352,000 59
Proskauer Rose $2,900,000 30 $1,354,000 23 $989,981,000 43
Goodwin Procter $2,883,000 31 $1,252,000 31 $1,486,263,000 23
Fenwick & West $2,846,000 32 $1,462,000 17 $543,079,000 72
Dechert $2,831,000 33 $1,116,000 44 $1,071,163,000 37
Cadwalader $2,554,000 34 $1,129,000 41 $452,572,000 85
Wilmer Cutler $2,535,000 35 $1,436,000 19 $1,243,384,000 29
Orrick $2,522,000 36 $1,162,000 38 $1,152,850,000 35
McDermott Will $2,521,000 37 $1,235,000 33 $1,381,814,000 24
O'Melveny & Myers $2,456,000 38 $1,245,000 32 $835,097,000 54
Alston Bird $2,434,000 39 $1,094,000 47 $851,601,000 53
Winston Strawn $2,420,000 40 $1,179,000 36 $981,223,000 45
Kramer Levin $2,301,000 41 $1,200,000 35 $390,000,000 98
Morrison Foerster $2,240,000 42 $1,137,000 39 $1,165,000,000 34
DLA Piper $2,122,000 43 $784,000 80 $3,133,829,000 3
Mayer Brown $2,006,000 44 $900,000 61 $1,517,100,000 22
Sheppard Mullin $2,001,000 45 $1,081,000 48 $867,416,000 50
Fish Richardson $1,984,000 46 $1,405,000 21 $451,237,000 87
Hogan Lovells $1,971,000 47 $884,000 65 $2,308,401,000 9
Pillsbury Winthrop $1,957,000 48 $1,113,000 45 $723,452,000 62
Greenberg Traurig $1,913,000 49 $797,000 79 $1,730,230,000 16
Katten Muchin $1,906,000 50 $1,009,000 54 $646,601,000 67
Covington & Burling $1,900,000 51 $1,125,000 42 $1,321,296,000 25
Shearman Sterling $1,897,000 52 $1,034,000 53 $861,026,000 51
Loeb & Loeb LLP $1,892,000 53 $943,000 56 $385,271,000 99
Mintz, Levin, $1,882,000 54 $1,047,000 51 $502,100,000 79
Baker Botts $1,848,000 55 $989,000 55 $710,770,000 64
Holland & Knight $1,739,000 56 $901,000 60 $1,044,337,000 38
Jenner & Block $1,737,000 57 $1,036,000 52 $446,295,000 88
Morgan, Lewis $1,716,000 58 $1,214,000 34 $2,446,000,000 7
Nixon Peabody $1,631,000 59 $885,000 64 $488,753,000 81
Crowell & Moring $1,629,000 60 $1,106,000 46 $514,391,000 77
McGuireWoods $1,609,000 61 $891,000 63 $831,051,000 55
Baker Hostetler $1,597,000 62 $869,000 68 $789,429,000 57
Foley & Lardner LLP $1,577,000 63 $920,000 57 $922,354,000 48
Reed Smith $1,530,000 64 $811,000 76 $1,310,596,000 26
Perkins Coie $1,433,000 65 $916,000 58 $1,001,498,000 42
Kilpatrick Townsend $1,357,000 66 $884,000 65 $497,936,000 80
Baker McKenzie $1,350,000 67 $617,000 92 $2,899,834,000 4
Arnold & Porter $1,348,000 68 $1,068,000 49 $961,900,000 46
Hunton Andrews $1,346,000 69 $882,000 67 $743,100,000 61
Seyfarth Shaw $1,333,000 70 $807,000 78 $717,032,000 63
Nelson Mullins Riley $1,324,000 71 $773,000 82 $577,075,000 71
Jones Day $1,294,000 72 $894,000 62 $2,226,424,000 10
Steptoe Johnson $1,265,000 73 $1,135,000 40 $393,914,000 97
Troutman Pepper $1,246,000 74 $821,000 71 $918,010,000 49
Squire Patton Boggs $1,217,000 75 $718,000 85 $1,042,000,000 39
Venable $1,204,000 76 $915,000 59 $681,864,000 65
Lewis, Brisbois $1,192,000 77 $434,000 100 $676,823,000 66
K&L Gates $1,150,000 78 $628,000 89 $1,019,674,000 40
Polsinelli $1,106,000 79 $708,000 86 $618,322,000 68
Blank Rome $1,088,000 80 $869,000 68 $483,370,000 82
Duane Morris $1,081,000 81 $745,000 83 $526,230,000 75
Haynes Boone $1,077,000 82 $811,000 76 $430,200,000 93
Locke Lord $1,075,000 83 $820,000 72 $482,096,000 83
Barnes & Thornburg $1,067,000 84 $818,000 74 $506,189,000 78
Gordon Rees Scully $1,032,000 85 $508,000 99 $442,256,000 92
Cozen OConnor $968,000 86 $775,000 81 $530,875,000 74
Norton Rose $957,000 87 $591,000 95 $1,877,933,000 13
Dorsey & Whitney $926,000 88 $812,000 75 $414,096,000 96
Ogletree, Deakins $903,000 89 $610,000 93 $537,559,000 73
Davis Wright $896,000 90 $834,000 70 $445,253,000 89
Faegre Drinker $856,000 91 $820,000 72 $937,037,000 47
Bryan Cave $837,000 92 $628,000 89 $860,083,000 52
Fox Rothschild LLP $802,000 93 $667,000 88 $584,000,000 70
Husch Blackwell $774,000 94 $622,000 91 $417,056,000 95
Akerman $748,000 95 $699,000 87 $451,682,000 86
Womble Bond $718,000 96 $537,000 98 $476,192,000 84
Jackson Lewis $685,000 97 $579,000 96 $518,243,000 76
Ballard Spahr $684,000 98 $721,000 84 $426,926,000 94
Baker, Donelson $615,000 99 $606,000 94 $372,959,000 100
Littler Mendelson $570,000 100 $578,000 97 $613,640,000 69

----------

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:19 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:11 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:08 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 12:04 pm

Sorry, meant to say rankings look updated but $$$ figures aren't

Sorry ignore me, just found the list. I'll compile the rankings right now and post them

Muchas gracias

Should be able to see it here

Thank you!!!

One longer term trend that jumps out on PPP is the shrinking gap between #1 and the rest. In 2010, WLRK's PPP was 2X DPW and 1.5X CSM, S&C, etc. In 2020, WLRK's PPP was +18% over DPW and +21% K&E. (Ofc, WLRK manages to hit those numbers with way less leverage.)

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:42 pm

One longer term trend that jumps out on PPP is the shrinking gap between #1 and the rest. In 2010, WLRK's PPP was 2X DPW and 1.5X CSM, S&C, etc. In 2020, WLRK's PPP was +18% over DPW and +21% K&E. (Ofc, WLRK manages to hit those numbers with way less leverage.)

WLKR's profits per lawyer are still completely absurd. More than 2x #2. I'd venture to guess their profit margins are tops by a similar margin (although AmLaw hasn't posted that info as far as I can see).

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:42 pm

One longer term trend that jumps out on PPP is the shrinking gap between #1 and the rest. In 2010, WLRK's PPP was 2X DPW and 1.5X CSM, S&C, etc. In 2020, WLRK's PPP was +18% over DPW and +21% K&E. (Ofc, WLRK manages to hit those numbers with way less leverage.)

DPW is eye popping, but some other firms have larger nonequity tiers than they did 10 years ago. So that explains why they’ve “caught up.”

hoos89 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:57 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 1:42 pm

One longer term trend that jumps out on PPP is the shrinking gap between #1 and the rest. In 2010, WLRK's PPP was 2X DPW and 1.5X CSM, S&C, etc. In 2020, WLRK's PPP was +18% over DPW and +21% K&E. (Ofc, WLRK manages to hit those numbers with way less leverage.)

WLKR's profits per lawyer are still completely absurd. More than 2x #2. I'd venture to guess their profit margins are tops by a similar margin (although AmLaw hasn't posted that info as far as I can see).

They have. WLRK 67%, Cahill 66%, Gibson Dunn 63%, Kirkland 61%, Milbank 59%, Wilkie 57%, Davis Polk, Quinn, and Sullivan and Cromwell at 56%, PW, Simpson and Latham at 55%. cravath about 5 more spots down at 50%. It’s on the same page as the PPEP page, you just have to click the next arrow at the bottom of the chart.

Can someone explain the math behind how both DPW and Kirkland have about $1M higher PPP than S&C, but their RPL is still behind S&C's?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:04 pm

Can someone explain the math behind how both DPW and Kirkland have about $1M higher PPP than S&C, but their RPL is still behind S&C's?

Leverage. DPW is 5.27 associates per equity partner. Kirkland is 4.72. S&C is 3.81. Less partners sharing profits = more profits per partner.

cheaptilts wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:04 pm

Can someone explain the math behind how both DPW and Kirkland have about $1M higher PPP than S&C, but their RPL is still behind S&C's?

Leverage. DPW is 5.27 associates per equity partner. Kirkland is 4.72. S&C is 3.81. Less partners sharing profits = more profits per partner.

Yeah..that’s what I thought. But what I can’t understand is how S&C can operate with much smaller number of associates per equity partner than that of DPW and Kirkland. Is it too simplistic to say this just means S&C associates are getting killed?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 pm

cheaptilts wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:04 pm

Can someone explain the math behind how both DPW and Kirkland have about $1M higher PPP than S&C, but their RPL is still behind S&C's?

Leverage. DPW is 5.27 associates per equity partner. Kirkland is 4.72. S&C is 3.81. Less partners sharing profits = more profits per partner.

Yeah..that’s what I thought. But what I can’t understand is how S&C can operate with much smaller number of associates per equity partner than that of DPW and Kirkland. Is it too simplistic to say this just means S&C associates are getting killed?

I heard that S&C's billing rates are slightly higher

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:37 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:31 pm

cheaptilts wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:10 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 3:04 pm

Can someone explain the math behind how both DPW and Kirkland have about $1M higher PPP than S&C, but their RPL is still behind S&C's?

Leverage. DPW is 5.27 associates per equity partner. Kirkland is 4.72. S&C is 3.81. Less partners sharing profits = more profits per partner.

Yeah..that’s what I thought. But what I can’t understand is how S&C can operate with much smaller number of associates per equity partner than that of DPW and Kirkland. Is it too simplistic to say this just means S&C associates are getting killed?

I heard that S&C's billing rates are slightly higher

Very true, http://cyansecuritieslitigation.com/med ... _court.pdf page 51 has firms' average billing rates.

Davis at $6.3mm PPEP with #17 billing rate? Please send their associates help

Wait Wachtel is #15? This list is off

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 4:56 pm

Davis at $6.3mm PPEP with #17 billing rate? Please send their associates help

Wait Wachtel is #15? This list is off

I think Wachtell--and firms like Boies (RIP)--appear so low because a lot of their revenue doesn't come from billables but instead from alternative fee arrangements (contingency fees, taking a percentage of the value of the deal, etc.). Hourly rate is imperfect, but a good metric to consider nonetheless

Some of those average rates are surprising. WSGR and Goodwin are a lot lower than I’d expect.

Can we say higher billing rate is due to more involvement from partners? (Or more mid-levels who charge higher rates?)

2013 wrote: ↑

Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:31 pm

Some of those average rates are surprising. WSGR and Goodwin are a lot lower than I’d expect.

MTO at like ~$750 or whatever it was (not checking again) is pretty surprising