Should I Ask this Senior Associate Why They Hate Me? Forum

[Anonymous User]

The title is a little hyperbolic, but in summary, one of the senior associates at my firm (Biglaw, lit, large secondary market, I'm a first year) is incredibly short with me pretty much all the time, and seems to absolutely hate answering questions or clarifying an assignment. I don't see this person speak to others this way, but literally EVERY question I have, they respond in a way that indicates they think it's a stupid thing to ask. I'm afraid to ask questions now and end up making mistakes because of it. I'm honestly terrified of working with this person any more, but the nature of the firm and group is such that I cannot avoid them. I KNOW seniors are busy and I don't ask questions unless I really need to-- unfortunately, as a first year, what I don't know is a lot, and then what I don't know I don't know is even more.

I am trying my VERY hardest to do a good job here, and I get very good feedback from pretty much every partner I work with, plus the other senior associate (and I do pretty much the same work for this senior associate as for the partners). I'm generally responsive and personable to everyone. This person is the only one who seems to get so irritated when I ask questions about an assignment, so I'm doubtful whether I'm actually terrible at my job.

That said, I've asked a couple sources (my counselor, a friend who works HR elsewhere, the recruiter who got me this job) for advice without naming names and speaking in general, and they've encouraged me to speak to this person and ask if there's some way they want me to better communicate with them, before bringing it to the department head if the senior reacts badly (risky, as the department head has made clear they like this senior) or HR (I don't think anything they could do can actually help me).

Is having this conversation with this senior associate an incredibly stupid idea that will have the domino effect of making this person hate me more and eventually getting me fired, or is there any chance in hell it will help? If things go on this way, I'm going to figure out a way to leave ASAP anyway.

[Anonymous User]

The title is a little hyperbolic, but in summary, one of the senior associates at my firm (Biglaw, lit, large secondary market, I'm a first year) is incredibly short with me pretty much all the time, and seems to absolutely hate answering questions or clarifying an assignment. I don't see this person speak to others this way, but literally EVERY question I have, they respond in a way that indicates they think it's a stupid thing to ask. I'm afraid to ask questions now and end up making mistakes because of it. I'm honestly terrified of working with this person any more, but the nature of the firm and group is such that I cannot avoid them. I KNOW seniors are busy and I don't ask questions unless I really need to-- unfortunately, as a first year, what I don't know is a lot, and then what I don't know I don't know is even more.

I am trying my VERY hardest to do a good job here, and I get very good feedback from pretty much every partner I work with, plus the other senior associate (and I do pretty much the same work for this senior associate as for the partners). I'm generally responsive and personable to everyone. This person is the only one who seems to get so irritated when I ask questions about an assignment, so I'm doubtful whether I'm actually terrible at my job.

That said, I've asked a couple sources (my counselor, a friend who works HR elsewhere, the recruiter who got me this job) for advice without naming names and speaking in general, and they've encouraged me to speak to this person and ask if there's some way they want me to better communicate with them, before bringing it to the department head if the senior reacts badly (risky, as the department head has made clear they like this senior) or HR (I don't think anything they could do can actually help me).

Is having this conversation with this senior associate an incredibly stupid idea that will have the domino effect of making this person hate me more and eventually getting me fired, or is there any chance in hell it will help? If things go on this way, I'm going to figure out a way to leave ASAP anyway.

It is super hard to get fired from a law firm. Can you give us more details OP? How do you know senior associate thinks your questions are stupid? How do you know senior associate doesn't talk to other first years or juniors the same way senior associate talks to you? It would be one thing if the associate says "that's a stupid question" or rolls their eyes but this could very much be a case of misunderstanding and projection (based on my experience - biglaw M&A in NY, big practice group with lots of associates).

How much work are you doing for this Senior Associate? A lot or a few hours here and there? Did they always work with you like this or is this a recent development? Is your practice area getting crushed like everyone else such that the Senior Associate is overworked and terse with most people?

Other thoughts, could it be a competitive thing where said senior associate feels that you are going to cannibalize their work? Can you work with just the other senior associate?

[Anonymous User]

The title is a little hyperbolic, but in summary, one of the senior associates at my firm (Biglaw, lit, large secondary market, I'm a first year) is incredibly short with me pretty much all the time, and seems to absolutely hate answering questions or clarifying an assignment. I don't see this person speak to others this way, but literally EVERY question I have, they respond in a way that indicates they think it's a stupid thing to ask. I'm afraid to ask questions now and end up making mistakes because of it. I'm honestly terrified of working with this person any more, but the nature of the firm and group is such that I cannot avoid them. I KNOW seniors are busy and I don't ask questions unless I really need to-- unfortunately, as a first year, what I don't know is a lot, and then what I don't know I don't know is even more.

I am trying my VERY hardest to do a good job here, and I get very good feedback from pretty much every partner I work with, plus the other senior associate (and I do pretty much the same work for this senior associate as for the partners). I'm generally responsive and personable to everyone. This person is the only one who seems to get so irritated when I ask questions about an assignment, so I'm doubtful whether I'm actually terrible at my job.

That said, I've asked a couple sources (my counselor, a friend who works HR elsewhere, the recruiter who got me this job) for advice without naming names and speaking in general, and they've encouraged me to speak to this person and ask if there's some way they want me to better communicate with them, before bringing it to the department head if the senior reacts badly (risky, as the department head has made clear they like this senior) or HR (I don't think anything they could do can actually help me).

Is having this conversation with this senior associate an incredibly stupid idea that will have the domino effect of making this person hate me more and eventually getting me fired, or is there any chance in hell it will help? If things go on this way, I'm going to figure out a way to leave ASAP anyway.

OP I had a similar situation as a second year lateral. one thing sr associates hate is if you make them look bad on something, create more work for them by not doing your job, or if you're not detail oriented which stresses the hell out of them because then they have to triple check your work. The last one was my problem as I had a few repeat mistakes and essentially learned that if I keep doing that people wont want to work with me and that's not exclusive to that sr associate or to my firm but that goes to everyone in law.

[Anonymous User]

ALWAYS go to the midlevel associate before you go to the senior associate. The senior is probably annoyed because the midlevel should be filtering the easy to answer or more junior questions and issues.

[beepboopbeep]

ALWAYS go to the midlevel associate before you go to the senior associate. The senior is probably annoyed because the midlevel should be filtering the easy to answer or more junior questions and issues.

This is not how it works everywhere, and assumes there even IS a mid-level involved on the matter(s).

[Anonymous User]

The title is a little hyperbolic, but in summary, one of the senior associates at my firm (Biglaw, lit, large secondary market, I'm a first year) is incredibly short with me pretty much all the time, and seems to absolutely hate answering questions or clarifying an assignment. I don't see this person speak to others this way, but literally EVERY question I have, they respond in a way that indicates they think it's a stupid thing to ask. I'm afraid to ask questions now and end up making mistakes because of it. I'm honestly terrified of working with this person any more, but the nature of the firm and group is such that I cannot avoid them. I KNOW seniors are busy and I don't ask questions unless I really need to-- unfortunately, as a first year, what I don't know is a lot, and then what I don't know I don't know is even more.

I am trying my VERY hardest to do a good job here, and I get very good feedback from pretty much every partner I work with, plus the other senior associate (and I do pretty much the same work for this senior associate as for the partners). I'm generally responsive and personable to everyone. This person is the only one who seems to get so irritated when I ask questions about an assignment, so I'm doubtful whether I'm actually terrible at my job.

That said, I've asked a couple sources (my counselor, a friend who works HR elsewhere, the recruiter who got me this job) for advice without naming names and speaking in general, and they've encouraged me to speak to this person and ask if there's some way they want me to better communicate with them, before bringing it to the department head if the senior reacts badly (risky, as the department head has made clear they like this senior) or HR (I don't think anything they could do can actually help me).

Is having this conversation with this senior associate an incredibly stupid idea that will have the domino effect of making this person hate me more and eventually getting me fired, or is there any chance in hell it will help? If things go on this way, I'm going to figure out a way to leave ASAP anyway.

It is super hard to get fired from a law firm. Can you give us more details OP? How do you know senior associate thinks your questions are stupid? How do you know senior associate doesn't talk to other first years or juniors the same way senior associate talks to you? It would be one thing if the associate says "that's a stupid question" or rolls their eyes but this could very much be a case of misunderstanding and projection (based on my experience - biglaw M&A in NY, big practice group with lots of associates).

How much work are you doing for this Senior Associate? A lot or a few hours here and there? Did they always work with you like this or is this a recent development? Is your practice area getting crushed like everyone else such that the Senior Associate is overworked and terse with most people?

Other thoughts, could it be a competitive thing where said senior associate feels that you are going to cannibalize their work? Can you work with just the other senior associate?

There actually aren't any other junior associates, which means I have no comparison there. Unfortunately, I end up doing a fair amount of work for them and there's not really a way to get out of it that I can see. This person has acted like this toward me from maybe day three, the first time they asked me to do something. I have no doubt they're busy, but I have not seen them speak to anyone else this way.

I know they think my questions are stupid because they say things like "why didn't you Google this before asking" (even though it was a fact and matter-specific inquiry and I had checked Google already) or "this is just basic discovery" (in a condescending tone, when asking about a new type of motion for me, for which I couldn't find any good examples), or straight up said that my request to talk briefly about an assignment was "irritating." They also tend to just ignore my emails when I ask questions like "It looks like the document you're asking me for was already drafted by Other Lawyer last week. Were there specific changes you wanted me to make?" Outside of that, I can absolutely hear the impatience in their tone if I do get them on the phone. I try to get them on the phone because if I ask questions by email and receive an emailed response, they ignore half of the questions in the email and confuse me more.

I actually think this person is a very poor communicator overall when explaining what they actually want me to do. I don't really have this problem with others who give me work.

[Anonymous User]

ALWAYS go to the midlevel associate before you go to the senior associate. The senior is probably annoyed because the midlevel should be filtering the easy to answer or more junior questions and issues.

This is not how it works everywhere, and assumes there even IS a mid-level involved on the matter(s).

Got it in one. The department doesn't even HAVE any midlevels. It's me and two about-to-be-partner seniors and that's it.

[Anonymous User]

How close is senior with department head? Just work on a lot of matters together or actually personal friends? Does the other other senior know the other one and have advice or insight to share?

[Anonymous User]

How close is senior with department head? Just work on a lot of matters together or actually personal friends? Does the other other senior know the other one and have advice or insight to share?

It's hard to tell. I think they have a professional relationship as opposed to an out-of-office friendship, but Department Head is very into mentorship and seems to be a big fan of Senior Associate in general, and I'm very sure he cares more about them than he does about me. As it should be, I suppose, but this is impacting my ability to produce good work in a timely manner.

I like the other senior, although they seem very harried and busy all the time so they aren't super approachable. They're nice to me and have given me good feedback. However, I don't know if it's appropriate to ask this person about dealing with their colleague with whom I'm having issues. I don't think the two seniors are very good friends or anything, but I feel like it could get around to the problem person pretty quick.

[objctnyrhnr]

I am a midlevel lit associate who functions as senior on all my matters. Most of my matters are staffed by myself and a junior.

I personally do my best to mentor/instruct/be kind to juniors because honestly that’s just who I am...but I also know that if they understand how I think and operate they will continue to improve (especially to the extent that they work for me).

This all being said, I have an answer that you will not like but I encourage you to follow my advice: do nothing. Just deal with it. You will gradually improve bit by bit as everybody does. And if it really gets so bad then lateral.

But suffice it to say that if you talk to anybody about it, it will turn into a whole thing and will result in people thinking of you as the annoying dramatic (at best) associate in your group. My guess is that whatever might come from your attempting to remedy the situation will backfire several-fold—especially in a small group.

(Since you did not say it, I am writing this under the presumption that you are not inferring any race based animus or something to that effect.)

[Anonymous User]

Sometimes people just don’t like you and there’s not much you can do to fix it. Could have nothing to do with your work product.

Advice is either learn to do deal with it or find other people to work for. Can’t please every single person you meet in your career.

[Anonymous User]

I worked in biglaw 8 years before transitioning in-house. I learned the hard way that it really matters who you directly work with. My takeaway is that this is not sustainable.

If I were you, I would try to stick it out until you’ve been at the firm about 2 years (easier time to lateral at this stage). Until then, I would do everything I could to minimize the amount of work I did for that senior. Try to get more work from others. When senior asks for something, say what your workload is and when you could get it to them by (not a super fast turnaround time). If senior asks for something by a certain date, don’t be afraid to say you’re working on XYZ matters so that timing might be difficult but you could get it to them by ABC other date.

If it’s still a problem leading up to the 2 year mark, then go to a mentor asking for help about how to not work with senior or lateral. It’s very hard for people to change, and I doubt having a conversation about communication will help.

Also, I would stick with larger groups in the future so you have more options re who to work with, or make sure you know for sure you like the team you’re joining.

[Anonymous User]

I worked in biglaw 8 years before transitioning in-house. I learned the hard way that it really matters who you directly work with. My takeaway is that this is not sustainable.

If I were you, I would try to stick it out until you’ve been at the firm about 2 years (easier time to lateral at this stage). Until then, I would do everything I could to minimize the amount of work I did for that senior. Try to get more work from others. When senior asks for something, say what your workload is and when you could get it to them by (not a super fast turnaround time). If senior asks for something by a certain date, don’t be afraid to say you’re working on XYZ matters so that timing might be difficult but you could get it to them by ABC other date.

If it’s still a problem leading up to the 2 year mark, then go to a mentor asking for help about how to not work with senior or lateral. It’s very hard for people to change, and I doubt having a conversation about communication will help.

Also, I would stick with larger groups in the future so you have more options re who to work with, or make sure you know for sure you like the team you’re joining.

Thank you for the advice, but I can't take this for two years. I don't even know if I can take it for one year, although that's my goal. There are other factors besides just this that contribute to that, but overall, it's severely impacting my mental health day to day.

It's very difficult for me to stop getting work from them or get less from them because of the size of the group. Of course I can ask others for work before I ask this person, and I do, but eventually it gets around to them that I'm not busy, and they're right there with something else. They don't really leave me any room to negotiate or push back, even to say that I can't meet their "by tomorrow morning" deadline.

[Anonymous User]

This person sounds like a jerk and a bad manager, but I agree with other posters that trying to have a conversation about it will end up backfiring on you. Something I never manage to do myself but see people having success with is basically killing them with kindness and making a point of refusing to let them get to you. It makes you look good to all the other people you work with and also sometimes wins over people like this associate. My only other advice is to make sure you’re avoiding any of the stereotypical “annoying” junior associate behaviors (though it sounds like you already are). My personal pet peeves (some fairer than others) are:

• getting a bunch of questions about a single assignment in a series of individual emails within a short period of time (just read the whole precedent/assignment/whatever and then put all your questions in one email). Related to this is asking questions about things that I’ve already explained in detail in the email about the assignment in a way that makes it apparent that they haven’t bothered to read the email.

• weird/vaguely demanding tone (“I have several questions about [non-urgent assignment]. What time will we be able to speak about this this morning?”)

• doing the absolute bare minimum (like I send you a precedent and you just copy/paste in the relevant language without making even the extremely obvious updates to fit our matter) - when you first start, it’s hard to know what you should be doing in these situations, but some juniors definitely know what has to be done, they just think they shouldn’t have to be the ones to do it.

• ghosting without notice at a time that it’s unusual to be out of pocket (e.g., we have a brief due tonight that we’ve known about for months and you suddenly tell me that you’ll be offline all night starting at 5 because you’re going to a concert)

[Anonymous User]

I am a midlevel lit associate who functions as senior on all my matters. Most of my matters are staffed by myself and a junior.

I personally do my best to mentor/instruct/be kind to juniors because honestly that’s just who I am...but I also know that if they understand how I think and operate they will continue to improve (especially to the extent that they work for me).

This all being said, I have an answer that you will not like but I encourage you to follow my advice: do nothing. Just deal with it. You will gradually improve bit by bit as everybody does. And if it really gets so bad then lateral.

But suffice it to say that if you talk to anybody about it, it will turn into a whole thing and will result in people thinking of you as the annoying dramatic (at best) associate in your group. My guess is that whatever might come from your attempting to remedy the situation will backfire several-fold—especially in a small group.

(Since you did not say it, I am writing this under the presumption that you are not inferring any race based animus or something to that effect.)

I figured this would be the most common response and was leaning toward not doing anything anyway, but this situation is not sustainable. I am looking for ways out already, because this person is making me completely miserable, but that likely won't be possible for a while.

This person is supposed to be my mentor. We have these monthly meetings where I'm ostensibly supposed to ask them questions (and I did for the first couple meetings, but now I mostly just say I don't have any at this point so I don't have to talk to them), and I've even considered asking if, in their career, they ever worked with/for someone who clearly did not like them or that they did not get along with and how they handled that situation (couched in other general advice-type questions). I don't think that would help either, but it's probably not as stupid as actually trying to do something about this, and it might make me feel better.

It is possible this is racially motivated, but since I'm the only junior right now, I can't tell how they would treat an associate of a different race, so I'm assuming it's not that because maybe I have some optimism left.

[Anonymous User]

This person sounds like a jerk and a bad manager, but I agree with other posters that trying to have a conversation about it will end up backfiring on you. Something I never manage to do myself but see people having success with is basically killing them with kindness and making a point of refusing to let them get to you. It makes you look good to all the other people you work with and also sometimes wins over people like this associate. My only other advice is to make sure you’re avoiding any of the stereotypical “annoying” junior associate behaviors (though it sounds like you already are). My personal pet peeves (some fairer than others) are:

• getting a bunch of questions about a single assignment in a series of individual emails within a short period of time (just read the whole precedent/assignment/whatever and then put all your questions in one email). Related to this is asking questions about things that I’ve already explained in detail in the email about the assignment in a way that makes it apparent that they haven’t bothered to read the email.

• weird/vaguely demanding tone (“I have several questions about [non-urgent assignment]. What time will we be able to speak about this this morning?”)

• doing the absolute bare minimum (like I send you a precedent and you just copy/paste in the relevant language without making even the extremely obvious updates to fit our matter) - when you first start, it’s hard to know what you should be doing in these situations, but some juniors definitely know what has to be done, they just think they shouldn’t have to be the ones to do it.

• ghosting without notice at a time that it’s unusual to be out of pocket (e.g., we have a brief due tonight that we’ve known about for months and you suddenly tell me that you’ll be offline all night starting at 5 because you’re going to a concert)

I have been taking the "kill them with kindness" approach the last few months, but suffice to say it has not been working. I have also tried my best to ignore their behavior, just do the work, and not take it personally, but it has been incredibly difficult. I am completely unused to someone treating me badly for what seems like no reason and it's really getting to me.

I don't think I do any of those things you mention. This person under-explains assignments pretty badly on a regular basis (one sentence asking me to draft (completely new type of motion) in Matter X, let me know if you have questions), but I try to keep all of my questions to one email and ask nicely if/when we can talk about them.

I'm also literally never offline, unless I'm actually asleep or in the middle of a dental appointment, because the culture at this firm seems to be that you cannot ever be offline for any reason. That's a whole other kettle of fish, anyway.

Thanks for the advice. I'm probably just going to keep trying, and failing, to ignore this.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why you think it's about them hating you specifically, if there are no other junior (or even midlevels) to compare their interactions to. It's more likely they're just a jerk in general and would be a jerk to other juniors, in which case there's not really a point to talking with them about it.

[Lacepiece23]

I’ll take a different approach here. If you can’t stand this person and want that to change, I think you need to be direct but polite on a phone call.

I’d call the person and explain how you are tryin, how you perceive some of the feedback, and not that you want to work through it.

Sometimes that’s enough to make the person feel bad and rethink. It actually happened to me once. I was on a pro Bono trial with a junior. I didn’t even realize that I had unrealistic expectations because I was working so hard.

The junior called me out, well, called the partner and told him. The partner called me. And I had to walk on egg shells. I didn’t like it but it made me reflect.

Maybe something to think about. If you suffer in silence, nothing will change.

[Anonymous User]

I don't understand why you think it's about them hating you specifically, if there are no other junior (or even midlevels) to compare their interactions to. It's more likely they're just a jerk in general and would be a jerk to other juniors, in which case there's not really a point to talking with them about it.

You know... That's something I hadn't thought about. I guess I assumed it was me
because I don't get this kind of treatment from anyone else (so the obvious answer isn't "you suck in general"), and because I don't see them talk to anyone else this way, but most of the other people I see them talking to are partners (once a midlevel from another office, but a partner was on that call-- they're not even mean to me when a partner is able to hear). If I didn't actually do anything and they're just a jerk to anyone they're in charge of, that's kind of freeing.

[Anonymous User]

I’ll take a different approach here. If you can’t stand this person and want that to change, I think you need to be direct but polite on a phone call.

I’d call the person and explain how you are tryin, how you perceive some of the feedback, and not that you want to work through it.

Sometimes that’s enough to make the person feel bad and rethink. It actually happened to me once. I was on a pro Bono trial with a junior. I didn’t even realize that I had unrealistic expectations because I was working so hard.

The junior called me out, well, called the partner and told him. The partner called me. And I had to walk on egg shells. I didn’t like it but it made me reflect.

Maybe something to think about. If you suffer in silence, nothing will change.

See, this was my initial thought-- there's no way things get better if I never say anything. I'd like to think it's possible they aren't doing this on purpose, even though it's hard to believe.

Even so, if this person takes my attempt to talk to them about this poorly, they're going to make my life a living hell for the next several months (until I quit). I don't think a reasonable person would fly off the handle, but I also don't think this person is very reasonable.

[nixy]

I don't understand why you think it's about them hating you specifically, if there are no other junior (or even midlevels) to compare their interactions to. It's more likely they're just a jerk in general and would be a jerk to other juniors, in which case there's not really a point to talking with them about it.

You know... That's something I hadn't thought about. I guess I assumed it was me because I don't get this kind of treatment from anyone else (so the obvious answer isn't "you suck in general"), and because I don't see them talk to anyone else this way, but most of the other people I see them talking to are partners (once a midlevel from another office, but a partner was on that call-- they're not even mean to me when a partner is able to hear). If I didn't actually do anything and they're just a jerk to anyone they're in charge of, that's kind of freeing.

I am absolutely certain that this is the case and this is how they would treat any junior they work with. The lack of juniors to work with has probably also given them unrealistic expectations of what it’s actually like. It’s absolutely not about you. It’s easier to say “don’t take it personally” than to do it, but I’m certain it’s not about you.

[jotarokujo]

a direct confrontation is risky. the safest thing to do is just slow roll your work output to this senior. respond with a "will do" but dont do work immediately

[Lacepiece23]

a direct confrontation is risky. the safest thing to do is just slow roll your work output to this senior. respond with a "will do" but dont do work immediately

I agree with the risk. Guess it depends on how bad it really is and how long you can make it if the status quo doesn’t change.

I kind of think the risk is overblown and everyone in biglaw is too passive aggressive. I got called out to a partner without even a phone call first. And yeah I was pissed, but I felt that I had to change.

I think a direct and very polite call could do wonders. And then, if it gets worse, loop in a reasonable partner. And then, if it doesn’t get better, loop in HR.

At that point, you’ll likely be reassigned which is a good thing anyway. And perhaps you can skate for another six months or so.

It doesn’t sound like OP is making it there anyway with the way things are currently going.

[notinbiglaw]

Honestly, I have had feedback from juniors that think I am mean and curt but a lot of the time it’s just a combination of my writing style and how often I am trying to get through a bajillion emails when I am answering questions. I was trained by MDs that delegated just a little more than what they thought I was ready for. And I am training my juniors the same way now but some perceive the extra responsibility to be unrealistic expectations.

People who’ve worked with me for a while know I am actually quite tolerant of mistakes (as long as they aren’t repeated too often) and generous with my time in terms of teaching/answering questions but just how I talk and behave sometimes is perceived as mean.

I’d just ask the senior if he/she thinks you’re asking too many questions and if there is something you can do to improve. You may be surprised at the response.

My advice more generally is don’t assume people are unsatisfied with or hate you. Just communicate. The worst case outcome is you have to do some stuff to get yourself away from this senior and hope good feedback on other teams balance things out, which is what needs to happen at some point if you say nothing anyway.

[Anonymous User]

While I think there's probably not much to be gained from a meeting, if you really want to do it I would couch it as "I've been working with you for X months, would you have time for an informal check in on my progress so I can incorporate any feedback or suggestions you may have?" That would give them a chance to share any constructive feedback (to the extent they have any and aren't just being a jerk) without putting them on the defensive or making it a confrontation of any kind.