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I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

Another miserable first year that’s curious about this.

If you’re planning to imminently quit and leave biglaw, can you just really half ass, or even quarter ass, until they fire you?

OP here. My clawback or whatever it’s called says I owe money if I basically leave the firm for any reason. Would getting fired trigger that (and would they realistically ask?)

If I try out another kind of law or switch careers, could getting fired hurt my references/burn bridges any more than quitting abruptly will?

Can you go on medical leave for your mental health or something? Maybe things will look better thereafter.

None of that situation sounds great, but if you tell the firm you're having health issues, maybe they might give you some ADA based leave. That might be a better option than outright dropping out of the firm with no notice, because, you never know? Also, making it to 1 year half-assing is very doable. In my experience, I think it takes a very long time for the firm to catch onto you, and even then, a long time to fire you.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 9:55 am

OP here. My clawback or whatever it’s called says I owe money if I basically leave the firm for any reason. Would getting fired trigger that (and would they realistically ask?)

If I try out another kind of law or switch careers, could getting fired hurt my references/burn bridges any more than quitting abruptly will?

I think the idea is that you might be able to make it to 12 months if you just half-ass or quarter-ass things for a while? Then you could quit without worrying about paying anything back.

Re: getting fired v. quitting, usually employers will just confirm dates of employment rather than go into why you left (to avoid lawsuits). Ideally you'll be able to find someone there who could serve as a positive reference, and people who get fired often find someone who's willing to speak for them. If there's one person you think could be a positive reference, maybe try to maintain good relations with them and not worry so much about everyone else.

(I also suspect half- or quarter-assing things is still going to be pretty decent work and will get you a lot further than you expect, but might help make things more sustainable for you.)

Yeah, like meet deadlines, but with bad work. Don’t do any work between 9 and 9. Don’t answer phone calls.

If you’re nice, reply ‘will do’ to emails, and turn something in, then they won’t fire you as a first year. So just phone it in.

Agree with quarter assing, but you also really can take mental health leave if you need it. Definitely a better option than quitting without warning and having to pay the money back. I have seen associates who were struggling (even with just personal life stuff like a divorce) and who were obviously going to quit go on leave for several months and continue to get paid/benefits etc without working.

I remember my firm's clawback specifically saying "if you voluntarily leave the firm," which means they wouldn't enforce it if they fired me. It's probably the same deal at your firm, even if the language isn't quite the same. It'd be pretty cruel to fire you and then clawback all of that comp.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

No advice, just want to say I'm in the same boat...seems like the number of first years looking to get out asap is higher than normal right now...

For god’s sake sparty

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

what is wrong with you?

baskeet wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:42 pm

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

what is wrong with you?

Wrong with me? Girl, I'm saving this fool $20,000.

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:21 pm

baskeet wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:42 pm

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

what is wrong with you?

Wrong with me? Girl, I'm saving this fool $20,000.

.

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:21 pm

baskeet wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:42 pm

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

what is wrong with you?

Wrong with me? Girl, I'm saving this fool $20,000.

the sooner he leaves the less competition we have. let him eat cake.

quit op. i'll mail you a postcard telling you what you're missing out on.

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

What is wrong with you?

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

What is wrong with you?

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:21 am

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

What is wrong with you?

Agreed. This was a ridiculous response. Why not throw in something about the holocaust or any of another million horrific events as well. Just because other people have survived horrific items doesn't mean we should discount this person's pain. It's not a competition.

I do agree with others suggestions to try quarter assing it. If that doesn't work ask for reduced pace or disability leave. If that doesn't work, quit. Your mental health is not worth $20k.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:21 am

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

What is wrong with you?

Double post.

avenuem wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:42 pm

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 4:21 pm

baskeet wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:42 pm

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

what is wrong with you?

Wrong with me? Girl, I'm saving this fool $20,000.

the sooner he leaves the less competition we have. let him eat cake.

quit op. i'll mail you a postcard telling you what you're missing out on.

Why are you even commenting when you don’t add any values to OP’s question?

sparty99 wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 12:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Apr 03, 2021 2:21 am

I'm a miserable first year, mental health problems, thinking about quitting (see the 500 other posts about this).

I signed a contract saying I'd pay back bar exam fees, bar prep fees, and my summer stipend if I leave within 12 months of starting. I also had a delayed start due to covid and received an additional fall stipend.

What are the chances my firm holds me to that agreement if I quit just to go mop floors or whatever? Will they try to collect on my additional stipend? I've heard mixed things through the grapevine and google hasn't been too helpful. Any quitters/friends of quitters out there have any experience or insight?

HELL NO DON"T QUIT. It is 12 months and you already started so what is it? Another 8 months? Black people survived slavery and working in the fields and you can't last another 8 months? Nah, bro. You need to stay working. Big law is not that serious and having to owe all that money is serious. Especially on top of your loans. Nah....

You need to stop being ridiculous.

moderator hat

Sparty is going to be taking a 3-day break from posting to see if that can help them learn to stop harassing people in the on-topics. I'm going through the other threads now to clean up the offending posts.

/moderator hat

OP here again: I appreciate all the input and advice, even the tough love -- I realize this is potentially a lot of money to pay back even though it doesn't feel like it in the context of what we are paid. I also realize that I had an idea of what I was signing up for when I took this job. I'm starting to think it may have just been a mistake to think that I could handle it.

But even considering the potential cost of quitting, the fact is things are going pretty bad for me and I don't know if I can keep this up. I am already pretty much quarter-assing it (I've read all the threads on how to coast and survive doing the bare minimum) and I'm seeing a therapist, working on taking care of myself, looking for solid mentors, etc. I hope things will get better but I'm just trying to prepare for what happens if they don't. I'll definitely think more about trying to take mental health leave.

Still wondering if there's anybody out there who quit/was fired first year and wants to chime in about whether they repaid their firm, but from people's responses it sounds like I should expect to repay them. I get it, that's fair, I don't mean to complain at all (although I'm hoping I won't need to repay my covid/delayed-start stipend, that does sound unfair to me and I didn't sign any sort of clawback for that specifically). At the end of the day, though, I agree with the poster who said my mental health is not worth $20k.

To others who have posted feeling similarly, I hope that things get better for you.