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I don't think they're going to negotiate your starting salary (assuming it is really biglaw, it should be lockstep for first year associates) or bonus (as you are not a lateral). They might be flexible on perks depending on what you are going to ask for.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:42 pmIf I get an offer after the summer at a firm that's way below my expected school / grades outcome (and they know that) and I have an offer with a V5, can I negotiate my starting salary / bonus / perks, etc.?
Superstar didn't quite think this through LOLtlsguy2020 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 1:14 amUnless the V5 is Wachtell, wouldn’t the comp at whatever biglaw firm you’re at be the same? What would you be negotiating?
Most job offers should be negotiated, yes, but not offers to be a first year associate at a biglaw firm where everybody in your class year is paid on a pre-set scale. As a lateral you can negotiate signing bonus, class year, etc., but you really just don't have much leverage as an incoming first year associate. First year associates are already overpaid relative the near-term value they bring to the firm. Sure you've got great grades at a great school and all, but you're not bringing any tangible skills to the table.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm. Given that context, should I not try to see if they'll compensate me for that? Plus, I have heard that most job offers are meant to be negotiated.
Should I be having this conversation with the HR and recruiting team? I am not sure how plugged in they are to school rankings / grades or if they have the right context so maybe I should instead talk to a partner?
That's fundamentally not how any of this works. There's a set associate pay scale at these places. They're not just gonna put him on another firm's pay scale...they'll just make an offer to some other candidate they interviewed instead.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:19 pmIf you already have a higher-paying offer in hand, I don't see anything wrong with seeing if they'd help bridge the gap. Posters here are, in my opinion unfairly, acting like it would have to be a prestige-shaming conversation rather than the compensation matching negotiation it should be.
OP isn't asking the firm to pay more because their firm is less prestigious, OP its asking the firm if they are willing to pay more because they have another offer from a firm that pays more. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
With that being said, I wouldn't bring up that your other offer is from a V5 or any kind of qualifier about your quality relative to other associates, your school, your grades, or the other firm other than that it pays market.
Where did OP say that the other offer pays more?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:19 pmIf you already have a higher-paying offer in hand, I don't see anything wrong with seeing if they'd help bridge the gap. Posters here are, in my opinion unfairly, acting like it would have to be a prestige-shaming conversation rather than the compensation matching negotiation it should be.
OP isn't asking the firm to pay more because their firm is less prestigious, OP its asking the firm if they are willing to pay more because they have another offer from a firm that pays more. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
With that being said, I wouldn't bring up that your other offer is from a V5 or any kind of qualifier about your quality relative to other associates, your school, your grades, or the other firm other than that it pays market.
OP of source quote: that's fair. When I read 'far below,' I figured it would be pretty deep in the rankings. I suppose OP could believe that a V50 is far below their credentials.nixy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:34 pmWhere did OP say that the other offer pays more?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:19 pmIf you already have a higher-paying offer in hand, I don't see anything wrong with seeing if they'd help bridge the gap. Posters here are, in my opinion unfairly, acting like it would have to be a prestige-shaming conversation rather than the compensation matching negotiation it should be.
OP isn't asking the firm to pay more because their firm is less prestigious, OP its asking the firm if they are willing to pay more because they have another offer from a firm that pays more. That seems pretty reasonable to me.
With that being said, I wouldn't bring up that your other offer is from a V5 or any kind of qualifier about your quality relative to other associates, your school, your grades, or the other firm other than that it pays market.
If you promise to come back and tell us what they say, I definitely encourage you to negotiate for more.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:42 pmIf I get an offer after the summer at a firm that's way below my expected school / grades outcome (and they know that) and I have an offer with a V5, can I negotiate my starting salary / bonus / perks, etc.?
"Inferring." But I made the opposite inference because I did not assume OP was not a moron, at least in this context.
This is awesome. OP, I graduated with several classmates who had advanced degrees that took years to obtain (PhDs specifically) going into patent pros/lit, who weren’t as entitled as you. And those people actually had a reason to be for reasons other than “I go to a T6 and got good grades!” Can you imagine how excited those firms were to get a student with a PhD and post-doc in cell biology or physical chemistry or materials science?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm. Given that context, should I not try to see if they'll compensate me for that? Plus, I have heard that most job offers are meant to be negotiated.
Should I be having this conversation with the HR and recruiting team? I am not sure how plugged in they are to school rankings / grades or if they have the right context so maybe I should instead talk to a partner?
OP will think first year doc review work is below him/her, and will begin delegating work to other first years who went to inferior schools.supermario26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:45 pmThis is awesome. OP, I graduated with several classmates who had advanced degrees that took years to obtain (PhDs specifically) going into patent pros/lit, who weren’t as entitled as you. And those people actually had a reason to be for reasons other than “I go to a T6 and got good grades!” Can you imagine how excited those firms were to get a student with a PhD and post-doc in cell biology or physical chemistry or materials science?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm. Given that context, should I not try to see if they'll compensate me for that? Plus, I have heard that most job offers are meant to be negotiated.
Should I be having this conversation with the HR and recruiting team? I am not sure how plugged in they are to school rankings / grades or if they have the right context so maybe I should instead talk to a partner?
I really hope you rethink not just this negotiation idea, but how you’ll act as a junior associate.
OP did not take out $250k in debt to go to NYU just to be stuck doing the same shit as somebody from Duke2013 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:57 pmOP will think first year doc review work is below him/her, and will begin delegating work to other first years who went to inferior schools.supermario26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:45 pmThis is awesome. OP, I graduated with several classmates who had advanced degrees that took years to obtain (PhDs specifically) going into patent pros/lit, who weren’t as entitled as you. And those people actually had a reason to be for reasons other than “I go to a T6 and got good grades!” Can you imagine how excited those firms were to get a student with a PhD and post-doc in cell biology or physical chemistry or materials science?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm. Given that context, should I not try to see if they'll compensate me for that? Plus, I have heard that most job offers are meant to be negotiated.
Should I be having this conversation with the HR and recruiting team? I am not sure how plugged in they are to school rankings / grades or if they have the right context so maybe I should instead talk to a partner?
I really hope you rethink not just this negotiation idea, but how you’ll act as a junior associate.
Honestly, this should be a thing.2013 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:57 pmOP will think first year doc review work is below him/her, and will begin delegating work to other first years who went to inferior schools.supermario26 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:45 pmThis is awesome. OP, I graduated with several classmates who had advanced degrees that took years to obtain (PhDs specifically) going into patent pros/lit, who weren’t as entitled as you. And those people actually had a reason to be for reasons other than “I go to a T6 and got good grades!” Can you imagine how excited those firms were to get a student with a PhD and post-doc in cell biology or physical chemistry or materials science?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm. Given that context, should I not try to see if they'll compensate me for that? Plus, I have heard that most job offers are meant to be negotiated.
Should I be having this conversation with the HR and recruiting team? I am not sure how plugged in they are to school rankings / grades or if they have the right context so maybe I should instead talk to a partner?
I really hope you rethink not just this negotiation idea, but how you’ll act as a junior associate.
The firm is just being polite, OP. The firm doesn't actually think you are more valuable because you got an A in property, or whatever.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 4:08 pmOP here: I am at a T6 at the top of my class and the firm went on and on about "how excited they were" that I decided to accept my offer and I know for a fact my grades/LSAT/school is better then the average person at this firm.