Always be padding? Forum

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

Honestly though, it's kind of pathetic to work in biglaw and call your clients evil. Do you think it makes you morally superior when you wag your finger about how reprehensible private equity firms are while you collect well into the six figures doing their scut work for them? Do you think you're a man of the people when you leave the meter running when you take a piss break?

It's not as pathetic as genuinely believing your clients are *not* evil.

I am indeed a man of the people when I take my Seamless home at 7:59 in the pre-billed car service despite my firm's very strict time requirements on both of them. The people is me, and the people will be eating lukewarm chicken tikka masala tonight.

Not the hero we deserve but the hero we need

[lolwutpar]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

[NoLongerALurker]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

[lolwutpar]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

[Anonymous User]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Yea it's always interesting being in onboarding meetings for new or summer associates coming onto a team and watching the partner or counsel pitch the matter/client explaining the benefits of what the company does, trying to paper over the fact it's all fucking rotten. Still unclear to me several years into practice whether they've just repeated the same bullshit so many times they believe it or it's just in their self-interest to believe it so they do or alternatively they are just consciously lying. Probably a combo.

[veers]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

[lolwutpar]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

Do you know what "realizing synergies" means? Congrats, your M&A deal closed, now hundreds to thousands of people are about to get shitcanned.

Half of the equation of cap markets is making the underwriters (big banks) richer. What a noble cause.

Who are the underlying limited partners in fund formation? What are the funds used for? It ain't for sunshine and rainbows.

[Anonymous User]

Yea it's always interesting being in onboarding meetings for new or summer associates coming onto a team and watching the partner or counsel pitch the matter/client explaining the benefits of what the company does, trying to paper over the fact it's all fucking rotten. Still unclear to me several years into practice whether they've just repeated the same bullshit so many times they believe it or it's just in their self-interest to believe it so they do or alternatively they are just consciously lying. Probably a combo.

Idunno, I'm in litigation and most of the partners I work for are (as I am) openly agnostic about the ethics of the work we do. At least in my practice it's all one rich corporation suing another rich corporation over some dumb contract dispute. Props up the system to the extent one cares about that, but beyond that the partners all seem to say "you can sleep pretty easily with this work, but if you want fulfillment in life, go do some pro bono" (and I agree).

Obviously it would be different if we were defending these corporations in discrimination suits or torts or something, really anything with human/class plaintiffs, but that's just not what I do.

[Prudent_Jurist]

Can I bill for time thinking about whether the work I'm doing is ethical? The subsequent existential crisis?

[cisscum]

It is funny to see how worked up people get about others maybe possibly over billing these giant evil law firms and companies. Plus the idea that you can ethically defend child slavery (for example) but god forbid you don’t stop the timer when you go to the bathroom.

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

Ever heard the term "little eichmann"?

[Anonymous User]

maybe it's cause my firm does a fair amount of cash strapped biotech companies, but I do think some of the capital markets work I'm on isn't bad, or at least I'm not losing sleep over helping companies that make lifechanging drugs get the capital they need and making sure their disclosures play by the rules

I do agree generally though and I sold out for sure

[veers]

Best take in the thread

ETA: if you're a transactional attorney your job is to help the rich get richer. If you're a litigator, you're saving the rich from becoming less rich. If you're a specialist, you do both. You threw your ethics out the window when you joined a law firm with clients like these.

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

Do you know what "realizing synergies" means? Congrats, your M&A deal closed, now hundreds to thousands of people are about to get shitcanned.

Half of the equation of cap markets is making the underwriters (big banks) richer. What a noble cause.

Who are the underlying limited partners in fund formation? What are the funds used for? It ain't for sunshine and rainbows.

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy. Adequately disclosing risks of securities offering isn't exactly the Devil's own work. Helping limited partners invest money to grow companies is actually a positive thing. Imagine that, feeling like your Biglaw job is actually contributing to society, what a crazy thought.

[Anonymous User]

You guys are ruining a very informative thread on billing practices. Take this ethics discussion elsewhere. (In fact, discussing biglaw ethics in a thread specifically about billing practices probably constitutes mail/wire fraud---ask @motojir.)

[cavalier1138]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

This is the new "padding billables is a federal crime" of the thread.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I assumed we were gonna have some spicy takes in a thread on this topic but "Actually the mass firings involved in mega-mergers and reorganizations are a *good* thing because those "unproductive" newly unemployed people can finally go do heroin something useful with their lives and therefore being an engineer of corporate oligopolization contributes to society" is a Carolina Reaper with no milk.

No one yell at this guy; I want to see where he goes with this.

[NoLongerALurker]

Imagine being this salty. Must be exhausting.

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

Do you know what "realizing synergies" means? Congrats, your M&A deal closed, now hundreds to thousands of people are about to get shitcanned.

Half of the equation of cap markets is making the underwriters (big banks) richer. What a noble cause.

Who are the underlying limited partners in fund formation? What are the funds used for? It ain't for sunshine and rainbows.

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy. Adequately disclosing risks of securities offering isn't exactly the Devil's own work. Helping limited partners invest money to grow companies is actually a positive thing. Imagine that, feeling like your Biglaw job is actually contributing to society, what a crazy thought.

Sure sucks how they were wasting their lives putting bread on the table for their families when they really should have been doing something less redundant all along. Really, the resultant poverty that forces the oldest child to work two part time jobs in high school while his dad tries to learn to code is the real American dream -- it makes for a great college admissions essay, after all.

(I actually do agree that adequate disclosure on securities offerings is overall a net positive to society, though, I guess)

[Buglaw]

It's not exhausting at all. I just am fully aware of the work we do and who our clients are and fully acknowledge I sold out, which apparently a lot of people delude themselves into thinking they didn't.

+1. It's actually kind of liberating, if anything, because being honest with the fact that I spend all my working hours making the world a slightly shittier place (or at least not deluding myself into thinking I'm at all making the world a better place) at least makes me feel obligated to have a fuller life and hobbies outside of work, all while allowing me to afford to live in the neighborhood I want. It does make the actual work more of a grind, but eh, you have to live in a very narrow slice of reality to *actually* be doing work you want to do. Like, the dude making me a burrito at chipotle doesn't wake up in the morning super pumped about spreading beans on a tortilla for me, but we all get it. I feel like most associates openly feel this way overall, but every now and then you find a true believer who like legitimately loves the work and personally I always find those people a little weird. But, power to 'em.

For sure. I can probably count on one hand the number of legitimately "good" clients I've had - and they are always startups with founders that are not from money and are trying to actually make a product that will make lives better. Too many startup founders are rich from either family money or prior success, so they don't get my green stamp.

Like, I've seen litigators tell me with a straight face that they have no issue defending Deutsche Bank from claims for reparations from Jewish families that got their shit stolen in the Holocaust because the claim has no merit. I would respect you a hell of a lot more if you just said, "Fuck Deutsche Bank, but it's my job to defend them. So it goes." instead of trying to justify it.

Get a grip. How does a typical cap markets, M&A associate or fund formation associate make the world a worse place? For the most part Biglaw as a corporate associate is just pushing papers around and not making all that much of a difference to mankind, not some sort of Dystopian cabal.

Do you know what "realizing synergies" means? Congrats, your M&A deal closed, now hundreds to thousands of people are about to get shitcanned.

Half of the equation of cap markets is making the underwriters (big banks) richer. What a noble cause.

Who are the underlying limited partners in fund formation? What are the funds used for? It ain't for sunshine and rainbows.

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy. Adequately disclosing risks of securities offering isn't exactly the Devil's own work. Helping limited partners invest money to grow companies is actually a positive thing. Imagine that, feeling like your Biglaw job is actually contributing to society, what a crazy thought.

Sure sucks how they were wasting their lives putting bread on the table for their families when they really should have been doing something less redundant all along. Really, the resultant poverty that forces the oldest child to work two part time jobs in high school while his dad tries to learn to code is the real American dream -- it makes for a great college admissions essay, after all.

(I actually do agree that adequate disclosure on securities offerings is overall a net positive to society, though, I guess)

Yeah, it is very hotly debated whether the excessive M&A activity actually creates overall value in the economy. The redundancy argument and efficient distribution of capital sounds great in theory, but it's not all that clear that this what occurs in practice.

What is not hotly debated is that being fired is emotionally devastating to the person being fired.

I have a more rosy view of securities disclosures which I tend to view as being mostly good.

[jc9812]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

[2012Split177]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

Is it a "take" though? I thought it was several books by Ayn Rand.

[Prudent_Jurist]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

Is it a "take" though? I thought it was several books by Ayn Rand.

That post is not several books by Ayn Rand. It’s a “take” that’s maybe related to Rand by the ‘nth’ degree.

But if that “take” is equivalent to several books by Ayn Rand, then my conclusion that Rand’s philosophy is dumb is finally QED’d.

[veers]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

It is amusing what you consider "naive." A job isn't some kind of lifelong entitlement from the government in the form of an Andrew Yang style UBI scheme. A job is you and an employer mutually agreeing that you are able to produce value in excess of your compensation. Corporate lawyer who was billing 2000 hours but now only have 1000 hours of billable work? Welcome to being fired. Goldman Sachs trader who was making $5 million/year for the firm but made some terrible trades that cost the firm a lot of money? Welcome to being fired. McDonald's burger flipper who can now be replaced by a machine? Welcome to being fired.

The idea that being involved in M&A activity to rightsize company operations, and eliminate deadwood middle management (or even for a company to do this internally without an acquisition), is somehow the Devil's own work is nothing less than insane. People are put on this earth with talents, drive, ambition, the capacity to develop real skills. Being stuck in a job where you are producing little or no value, and having that job then be eliminated so you can do other more valuable things with your life, like starting your own business, working in a more lucrative role, or developing more robust skills, isn't some kind of terrible tragedy.

I guess if you are the second coming of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or something, and you look at all corporations as evil, the working in Biglaw would be pretty miserable at a very fundamental level (beyond the hours and the personalities), but if that is the case you really should go do something else with your life. The people who make partner, and actually like the job to some extent, actually feel that they are providing crucial advice to help companies grow and succeed, not sitting there making the world a worse place or something.

[daedalus2309]

The people who make partner, and actually like the job to some extent, actually feel that they are providing crucial advice to help companies grow and succeed, not sitting there making the world a worse place or something.

True, we should consider the partner’s feelings in all this

[cavalier1138]

I guess if you are the second coming of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or something

Can you be the second coming of someone who's still alive?

Welcome to being fired.

I also appreciate the extra effort it took to not violate Trump's precious IP by not saying "You're fired." That's true dedication.

[legalpotato]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

It is amusing what you consider "naive." A job isn't some kind of lifelong entitlement from the government in the form of an Andrew Yang style UBI scheme. A job is you and an employer mutually agreeing that you are able to produce value in excess of your compensation. Corporate lawyer who was billing 2000 hours but now only have 1000 hours of billable work? Welcome to being fired. Goldman Sachs trader who was making $5 million/year for the firm but made some terrible trades that cost the firm a lot of money? Welcome to being fired. McDonald's burger flipper who can now be replaced by a machine? Welcome to being fired.

The idea that being involved in M&A activity to rightsize company operations, and eliminate deadwood middle management (or even for a company to do this internally without an acquisition), is somehow the Devil's own work is nothing less than insane. People are put on this earth with talents, drive, ambition, the capacity to develop real skills. Being stuck in a job where you are producing little or no value, and having that job then be eliminated so you can do other more valuable things with your life, like starting your own business, working in a more lucrative role, or developing more robust skills, isn't some kind of terrible tragedy.

I guess if you are the second coming of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or something, and you look at all corporations as evil, the working in Biglaw would be pretty miserable at a very fundamental level (beyond the hours and the personalities), but if that is the case you really should go do something else with your life. The people who make partner, and actually like the job to some extent, actually feel that they are providing crucial advice to help companies grow and succeed, not sitting there making the world a worse place or something.

Given that there are a substantial amount of sheltered K-JD kids on here who, despite paying lip service to "diversity", have never actually allowed themselves to be exposed to thoughts or ideas outside of their own reddit bubble and who frequently make posts on TLS freaking out about "omg does this law firm have conservatives and how oppressed will I be", I feel like I should say this: this guy does not represent how the vast majority of conservatives think about the world.

[veers]

Getting pushed out of an unproductive job so they can do something useful with their lives is no great tragedy.

If this is sincere it's probably the single dumbest, most naive take I've heard in my life.

It is amusing what you consider "naive." A job isn't some kind of lifelong entitlement from the government in the form of an Andrew Yang style UBI scheme. A job is you and an employer mutually agreeing that you are able to produce value in excess of your compensation. Corporate lawyer who was billing 2000 hours but now only have 1000 hours of billable work? Welcome to being fired. Goldman Sachs trader who was making $5 million/year for the firm but made some terrible trades that cost the firm a lot of money? Welcome to being fired. McDonald's burger flipper who can now be replaced by a machine? Welcome to being fired.

The idea that being involved in M&A activity to rightsize company operations, and eliminate deadwood middle management (or even for a company to do this internally without an acquisition), is somehow the Devil's own work is nothing less than insane. People are put on this earth with talents, drive, ambition, the capacity to develop real skills. Being stuck in a job where you are producing little or no value, and having that job then be eliminated so you can do other more valuable things with your life, like starting your own business, working in a more lucrative role, or developing more robust skills, isn't some kind of terrible tragedy.

I guess if you are the second coming of Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or something, and you look at all corporations as evil, the working in Biglaw would be pretty miserable at a very fundamental level (beyond the hours and the personalities), but if that is the case you really should go do something else with your life. The people who make partner, and actually like the job to some extent, actually feel that they are providing crucial advice to help companies grow and succeed, not sitting there making the world a worse place or something.

Given that there are a substantial amount of sheltered K-JD kids on here who, despite paying lip service to "diversity", have never actually allowed themselves to be exposed to thoughts or ideas outside of their own reddit bubble and who frequently make posts on TLS freaking out about "omg does this law firm have conservatives and how oppressed will I be", I feel like I should say this: this guy does not represent how the vast majority of conservatives think about the world.

Interesting that a "conservative" think that middle managers should have lifetime guaranteed employment ala France or something. And LOL that ANYONE thinks that going to work in NY or DC Biglaw (outside of a couple of exceptions like Jones Day) means that you are going to be interacting with a substantial number of ideological conservatives (other than some socially liberal fiscally conservative Manhattan types). Just look at the Biden/Trump numbers if NY/DC - lawyers likely broke for Biden even more heavily than that.