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Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:56 pm
by Anonymous User
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Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 2:15 pm
by avenuem
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:56 pm
How are we supposed to feel about the "guaranteed" offers when the firm can't even follow through its SA program when every other biglaw still managed to have some sort of summer program and paid all of their summers?
ur right.
& u should have started looking for a job yesterday.
get a better offer and take it, but in the meantime don't tell current job.
alternatively, file a class action litigation
Summers of the Class of 2021 v. Vault 100-349 law firms that cancelled, Class of 2020 unemployed grads competing against Class of 2021, TLS poster who takes up threads complaining about how his biglaw firm is evil when those threads can be used to bring attention to your firm's injustice et al.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:03 pm
by Anonymous User
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Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:56 pm
by blair.waldorf
sparty99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I'm seriously having a hard time getting over the fact that my firm totally fcked me by canceling the summer program without paying ANYTHING (literally nothing) to their summers.
How are we supposed to feel about the "guaranteed" offers when the firm can't even follow through its SA program when every other biglaw still managed to have some sort of summer program and paid all of their summers? Other firms that canceled still PAID. Even the firms that are much smaller than mine PAID. PERIOD. I can't stop feeling so frustrated when I busted my ass off during the OCI just to get a big law offer that turned out to be futile a year later.
What should be my next moves? Hustle and try trading up, even if that means searching for jobs while studying for the bar, or just go with the current firm? Obviously, I'm not excited about the current firm at all, which is the bigger problem. Should I just coast for two years at the current firm, bill as few hours possible, and lateral to another firm as a junior?
No one cares. You sound like a whiny twat.
This is unnecessary. OP has a right to be angry. I would be, too.
OP—assuming you’re a 3L who is about to graduate (or are firms canceling 2021 summer programs?), you needed to start looking for a new firm yesterday.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:04 pm
by RokosBasilisk2049
sparty99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I'm seriously having a hard time getting over the fact that my firm totally fcked me by canceling the summer program without paying ANYTHING (literally nothing) to their summers.
How are we supposed to feel about the "guaranteed" offers when the firm can't even follow through its SA program when every other biglaw still managed to have some sort of summer program and paid all of their summers? Other firms that canceled still PAID. Even the firms that are much smaller than mine PAID. PERIOD. I can't stop feeling so frustrated when I busted my ass off during the OCI just to get a big law offer that turned out to be futile a year later.
What should be my next moves? Hustle and try trading up, even if that means searching for jobs while studying for the bar, or just go with the current firm? Obviously, I'm not excited about the current firm at all, which is the bigger problem. Should I just coast for two years at the current firm, bill as few hours possible, and lateral to another firm as a junior?
No one cares. You sound like a whiny twat.
They got shorted a bunch of $$$$ in a banner year for most firms, I would be pissed too. Not having SA paycheck to pay down loans also can have quite a big impact on debt at graduation, which can really throw a wrench into financial goals. OP is completely justified in being pissed.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:10 pm
by Buglaw
sparty99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 9:58 pm
blair.waldorf wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:56 pm
sparty99 wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:06 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 1:56 pm
I'm seriously having a hard time getting over the fact that my firm totally fcked me by canceling the summer program without paying ANYTHING (literally nothing) to their summers.
How are we supposed to feel about the "guaranteed" offers when the firm can't even follow through its SA program when every other biglaw still managed to have some sort of summer program and paid all of their summers? Other firms that canceled still PAID. Even the firms that are much smaller than mine PAID. PERIOD. I can't stop feeling so frustrated when I busted my ass off during the OCI just to get a big law offer that turned out to be futile a year later.
What should be my next moves? Hustle and try trading up, even if that means searching for jobs while studying for the bar, or just go with the current firm? Obviously, I'm not excited about the current firm at all, which is the bigger problem. Should I just coast for two years at the current firm, bill as few hours possible, and lateral to another firm as a junior?
No one cares. You sound like a whiny twat.
This is unnecessary. OP has a right to be angry. I would be, too.
OP—assuming you’re a 3L who is about to graduate (or are firms canceling 2021 summer programs?), you needed to start looking for a new firm yesterday.
The only purpose of the summer associate program is to receive a full-time offer. This dude and let's be clear, this is a dude, was able to bypass the summer associate program and has a full-time offer and will be making presumably $180,000 or a high salary. But yet he is already complaining and talking about billing as few hours possible while "coasting" for two years. Give me a break. This is an entitled brat. Your offer should be pulled altogether with that attitude!
Why go out of your way to call OP a man and emphasize it like it explains something or is somehow a negative characteristic?
I'd be pissed if I was OP too. OP may have chosen this firm over others. OP will now not have that extra summer money to live off during the school year and will have to take on extra loans. OP's firm has also signaled to him that they don't care about their associates, are cheap and will likely do whatever they can to pay OP below market. OP should look for another job and get away from this trash firm.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:13 pm
by Anonymous User
LOL i'm almost positive this is the same person on the /r/lawschool subreddit that brings up last year's summer comp every time there's a post that even remotely entertains summer pay. Please have some perspective and understand that you're not entitled to anything, even if it may seem like it. If you're worried about them pulling your offer, don't be - the considerations behind a 10-week temporary summer program are infinitely different than the decision to keep incoming associates (especially since work has ramped up considerably as the COVID situation eases).
It's understandable to be upset, but it's been a fucking year....my god.
EDIT: to answer your question, the only real option is to email around and look at various firms' websites to see if they're actively recruiting 3Ls. The timeframe to do this was probably early Fall, but may as well try?
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:22 pm
by 2013
OP probably saw vault rankings and chose GT or something over “smaller” firms that most people would consider better than GT.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 2:45 pm
by Wearthewildthingsr
Eh, it's fair to be annoyed by that, and besides missing out on money or getting a better idea of a certain practice, I'd be concerned about whether that suggests something else about the firm's overall financial health. Long story short, yes I'd be looking elsewhere because of that. Just not sure how you'd spin it to your new firm without totally shitting on your previous firm.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:22 pm
by jotarokujo
why are people saying this is no big deal? this is an actual material thing that's worth complaining about imo. plenty of valid complaints about lesser things. lost money, lost experience (to the extent SAs get any), etc
sure it's not the biggest thing, but it's not nothing
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
by avenuem
jotarokujo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:22 pm
why are people saying this is no big deal? this is an actual material thing that's worth complaining about imo. plenty of valid complaints about lesser things. lost money, lost experience (to the extent SAs get any), etc
sure it's not the biggest thing, but it's not nothing
assuming $3700 x 10 weeks OP "lost" $37,000 that he wasn't entitled to have. big whoop. if it was $37,000 x 10 weeks that's different. but it's not $37,000.
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
if he's complaining about the lack of experience just be patient because the summer experience isnt that valuable unless you actually use it to learn how to do better than others (most people fail at this)
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:57 pm
by RokosBasilisk2049
avenuem wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
assuming $3700 x 10 weeks OP "lost" $37,000 that he wasn't entitled to have. big whoop. if it was $37,000 x 10 weeks that's different. but it's not $37,000.
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money
or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
Terrible take and very out of touch. Not everyone can call up daddy and ask for 37 grand for the summer. Not having SA income to offset loans could also extend OP's debt repayment horizon by 1-2 years depending on the level of debt they have. That's more than enough to warrant being pissed off, honestly.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:02 pm
by hoos89
Can't believe people are actually in here arguing that $37k is not a big deal, especially to a law student. That's a significant chunk of student loans OP is probably going to have to take out now.
How many of you wouldn't at least consider your options if your firm shorted you $37k vs the market on this year's special bonuses?
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:04 pm
by nixy
avenuem wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
jotarokujo wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 3:22 pm
why are people saying this is no big deal? this is an actual material thing that's worth complaining about imo. plenty of valid complaints about lesser things. lost money, lost experience (to the extent SAs get any), etc
sure it's not the biggest thing, but it's not nothing
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
lol I get that you're leaning into the elitist troll shtick but this is rich even for you.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 10:55 am
by Oleo
OP, I was in a similar situation as you. Please feel free to PM me if you want to chat.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:44 pm
by Anonymous User
OP, also at the same firm. Also very concerned.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm
by sparty99
RokosBasilisk2049 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:57 pm
avenuem wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
assuming $3700 x 10 weeks OP "lost" $37,000 that he wasn't entitled to have. big whoop. if it was $37,000 x 10 weeks that's different. but it's not $37,000.
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money
or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
Terrible take and very out of touch. Not everyone can call up daddy and ask for 37 grand for the summer. Not having SA income to offset loans could also extend OP's debt repayment horizon by 1-2 years depending on the level of debt they have. That's more than enough to warrant being pissed off, honestly.
Oh, boo hoo. Most of his classmates don't even make $37,000 for the summer and many don't have post law school offers for $180,000 or whatever he is making. He also had the last 12 months to make up for any lost income from his internship being cut. I'm sure he didn't take the opportunity to work.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:06 pm
by kierkegaardaddy
sparty99 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm
RokosBasilisk2049 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:57 pm
avenuem wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
assuming $3700 x 10 weeks OP "lost" $37,000 that he wasn't entitled to have. big whoop. if it was $37,000 x 10 weeks that's different. but it's not $37,000.
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money
or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
Terrible take and very out of touch. Not everyone can call up daddy and ask for 37 grand for the summer. Not having SA income to offset loans could also extend OP's debt repayment horizon by 1-2 years depending on the level of debt they have. That's more than enough to warrant being pissed off, honestly.
Oh, boo hoo. Most of his classmates don't even make $37,000 for the summer and many don't have post law school offers for $180,000 or whatever he is making. He also had the last 12 months to make up for any lost income from his internship being cut. I'm sure he didn't take the opportunity to work.
This isn't even a funny troll
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:58 pm
by Anonymous User
This is a legitimate grievance, IMO. What opportunities are (or are not) available to OP's classmates is irrelevant. OP had the credentials and interviewing chops to get a biglaw offer, and might have even chosen this non-paying firm from among several peer firms (the others of which paid their SAs).
Whether it's worth doing anything about...maybe? OP, has the firm matched the special fall 2020 and spring 2021 bonuses? That may tell you whether the summer cancellation was a one-off blip, or instead indicative of a broader pattern of screwing over associates.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:29 pm
by nixy
sparty99 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm
Oh, boo hoo. Most of his classmates don't even make $37,000 for the summer and many don't have post law school offers for $180,000 or whatever he is making. He also had the last 12 months to make up for any lost income from his internship being cut. I'm sure he didn't take the opportunity to work.
1) depending where they go to school, most of their classmates probably did make that much and do have biglaw offers lined up
2) working over the last 12 months of law school isn't the same as making $37k in 10 weeks.
I mean I don't think there's any point in obsessing over it (what's done is done) and I don't think there's any point going into the job with a bad attitude - either find another job (though they should have started trying earlier than this) or make the best of this one and do a good job. If the OP really can't get over this then maybe they need to talk to someone. But probably most of their classmates did get paid a shitload of money to do not very much last summer, and it sucks to miss out on that.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:23 pm
by Anonymous User
sparty99 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 5:37 pm
RokosBasilisk2049 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:57 pm
avenuem wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 6:40 pm
assuming $3700 x 10 weeks OP "lost" $37,000 that he wasn't entitled to have. big whoop. if it was $37,000 x 10 weeks that's different. but it's not $37,000.
if it's that important to have $37,000 for a summer take it from your savings and put it back when you graduate and are making money
or borrow it from a relative if you dont have it saved.
Terrible take and very out of touch. Not everyone can call up daddy and ask for 37 grand for the summer. Not having SA income to offset loans could also extend OP's debt repayment horizon by 1-2 years depending on the level of debt they have. That's more than enough to warrant being pissed off, honestly.
Oh, boo hoo. Most of his classmates don't even make $37,000 for the summer and many don't have post law school offers for $180,000 or whatever he is making. He also had the last 12 months to make up for any lost income from his internship being cut. I'm sure he didn't take the opportunity to work.
OP here. Seriously, I understand the pandemic is having a great toll on people's mental health but dude, you gotta stop being bitter. Almost everyone I know in my class has a big law job lined up and made 37k last summer, not even over 10 weeks but over 4-6 weeks. Some even didn't work at all but received full pay. If you gotta make comparisons, you gotta look at the comparable, similar groups, not rising 3Ls with big law SA offers vs those without post-grad jobs or seeking careers in PI/government. Also, LOL @ having 12 months to make up for any lost income. Are you sure you went to law school?
Your comments are neither productive nor helpful for anyone. As I said, go take a nap and get a banana. or maybe some Xanax?
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:25 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 6:58 pm
This is a legitimate grievance, IMO. What opportunities are (or are not) available to OP's classmates is irrelevant. OP had the credentials and interviewing chops to get a biglaw offer, and might have even chosen this non-paying firm from among several peer firms (the others of which paid their SAs).
Whether it's worth doing anything about...maybe? OP, has the firm matched the special fall 2020 and spring 2021 bonuses? That may tell you whether the summer cancellation was a one-off blip, or instead indicative of a broader pattern of screwing over associates.
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Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 3:36 pm
by Anonymous User
OP, assuming this is GT, they did not match either special bonus, though theoretically your black box bonus could match or surpass the covid special bonus (do NOT count on this).
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 6:03 pm
by nixy
I mean the OP’s not suggesting they’re going to sue for breach of contract. They don’t have any obligation to mitigate damages. I agree they need to move on but this “you had 12 months to make up the income” is just silly.
Re: Help me with my next moves - not happy with my firm
Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 7:13 pm
by hoos89
SA money is effectively a signing bonus. SAs don't do anything of actual value when they're working over the summer, and their offers are pretty near guaranteed. So the firm essentially agreed to pay a $37.5k signing bonus and then reneged on that. I'd be pissed too, just as anyone at a typically market-paying firm that doesn't pay special bonuses will be pissed. Very reasonable thing to be upset about, and I'm not sure why people are attacking OP. Also weird that people keep talking about "mitigating damages"...there's not really a realistic alternative avenue to get $37.5k as a law school student, much less for 10 weeks of "work".