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So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
by Anonymous User
So with the OCI cycle starting to wind down, what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle? Was the hiring market more or less active?
I've heard people say that firms did much better than the usual years and will actually pick up on hiring, but I'm also seeing people striking out everywhere. I'm seeing median students at non-T14 (still T1) making it into top firms while also seeing median students at T14 completely striking out and asking for help.
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:13 pm
by Anonymous User
firm dependent. many of the firms enlarged their summer class size
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 1:25 pm
by Anonymous User
OCI deferred from August to January → relatively more time ahead of OCI → more pre-OCI activity than usual and larger portion of summer class drawn from pre-OCI → marginally harder to get offers at normal OCI
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm
by Anonymous User
Goodwin had 89 summer associates last year and has 150 this year (firmwide).
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:11 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm
Goodwin had 89 summer associates last year and has 150 this year (firmwide).
Anon b/c 3L incoming associate here. Sorry to derail the thread, but just observing that the stealth layoffs don't appear to have affected recruiting. I have to worry that this substantial increase is going to lead to more stealth layoffs in the future, affecting both my class (89 summers) and those we'll eventually be competing for work with (~150 people). Thoughts?
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:28 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm
Goodwin had 89 summer associates last year and has 150 this year (firmwide).
Anon b/c 3L incoming associate here. Sorry to derail the thread, but just observing that the stealth layoffs don't appear to have affected recruiting. I have to worry that this substantial increase is going to lead to more stealth layoffs in the future, affecting both my class (89 summers) and those we'll eventually be competing for work with (~150 people). Thoughts?
They need to resupply their associate pool, so I was not surprised by the increase in the amount of summers in this year's class.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:47 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:11 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 2:32 pm
Goodwin had 89 summer associates last year and has 150 this year (firmwide).
Anon b/c 3L incoming associate here. Sorry to derail the thread, but just observing that the stealth layoffs don't appear to have affected recruiting. I have to worry that this substantial increase is going to lead to more stealth layoffs in the future, affecting both my class (89 summers) and those we'll eventually be competing for work with (~150 people). Thoughts?
I share your fear. Nevertheless, Goodwin seems to just be killing it performance-wise, and they caught a lot of flack for this, so I really hope they learned from their mistakes.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:31 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Idk. I think it depends. I'm top 5% at a t50 strong regional and struck out while only getting 50% rate on my bids. In years past, the bid rates for top 10% have been near 100%. People got like 1-2 callbacks at most. A lot of firms were full from their 1L classes and we had no chance to even bid on them. A lot of the mid-sized regional firms didn't have summer classes at all. I don't know of a single person in my class that got to choose between multiple offers. They got one and took it.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:42 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Idk. I think it depends. I'm top 5% at a t50 strong regional and struck out while only getting 50% rate on my bids. In years past, the bid rates for top 10% have been near 100%. People got like 1-2 callbacks at most. A lot of firms were full from their 1L classes and we had no chance to even bid on them. A lot of the mid-sized regional firms didn't have summer classes at all. I don't know of a single person in my class that got to choose between multiple offers. They got one and took it.
Were you top 5% before entering 2L, and did you apply broadly pre-OCI?
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:46 pm
by Reese1
The career services office at my t14 said it was an especially tough market for lit this year, especially top-end lit and DC. Apparently, the 2Ls tried really hard this past semester and crushed the 3Ls across the curve. I can't say I have any way to prove this, but it makes sense.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:54 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Idk. I think it depends. I'm top 5% at a t50 strong regional and struck out while only getting 50% rate on my bids. In years past, the bid rates for top 10% have been near 100%. People got like 1-2 callbacks at most. A lot of firms were full from their 1L classes and we had no chance to even bid on them. A lot of the mid-sized regional firms didn't have summer classes at all. I don't know of a single person in my class that got to choose between multiple offers. They got one and took it.
Were you top 5% before entering 2L, and did you apply broadly pre-OCI?
I applied everywhere pre-OCI and was even higher ranked after 1L. I got 1 callback at a v5 and I think my poor interviewing messed that up tbh. But that was all I heard from. I think my poor interviewing definitely hurt me or good interviewing could’ve helped me but I’m talking about all of me plus my friends experience as well.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:04 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:54 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:42 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 8:31 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Idk. I think it depends. I'm top 5% at a t50 strong regional and struck out while only getting 50% rate on my bids. In years past, the bid rates for top 10% have been near 100%. People got like 1-2 callbacks at most. A lot of firms were full from their 1L classes and we had no chance to even bid on them. A lot of the mid-sized regional firms didn't have summer classes at all. I don't know of a single person in my class that got to choose between multiple offers. They got one and took it.
Were you top 5% before entering 2L, and did you apply broadly pre-OCI?
I applied everywhere pre-OCI and was even higher ranked after 1L. I got 1 callback at a v5 and I think my poor interviewing messed that up tbh. But that was all I heard from. I think my poor interviewing definitely hurt me or good interviewing could’ve helped me but I’m talking about all of me plus my friends experience as well.
That is pretty weird, although (assuming) if you only got one callback out of 10-20 or more screeners, then I don't think your stats would have helped you in a normal year if your interviewing is
that far off the mark.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:40 pm
by feminist.supporter
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 4:29 pm
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 12:47 am
Granted, it's more likely that people who struck out will post about their situations than those who got good positions, but does anyone know if hiring really did get better/worse this year as a whole?
It's this. And not hard to figure out why.
When people don't get the results they want, they look for explanations. But often people find it is easier to point to external factors (e.g. spreading speculation that COVID impacted class sizes) than take personal accountability. And as they are the people most likely to post and complain, rumors that it's a difficult cycle gains traction in other online forums/communities.
You will find that most V50 firms (and I mean like 90%+) will have increased their class sizes this year. It's absolutely bonkers in terms of workload and firms desperately need associates. So if you didn't get an offer, you have to look at your own shortcomings.
Oh, young Giordano Bruno reincarnated, how can thy be so braveth in thy utterances? I can already see them setting up the cross for thy to be burned.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 9:59 pm
by gottagetouttahere
I blame myself for my failure at OCI and pre/post-OCI hiring. Did ok but not great at interviews and applied poorly WRT geography. Seems like everywhere above v50 boosted class sizes. Can only imagine that this will destroy 3L hiring at that level... but maybe have an opposite, positive effect elsewhere?
edit: my thinking (hope) is that "second hundred" of the AmLaw 200, midsize, etc. will be more active at the 3L level.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:54 pm
by Anonymous User
I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that there are over 150 summer associates in Davis Polk's NY office alone...
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:24 am
by Anonymous User
1. I think it was harder for litigation-only folks than corporate.
2. I think it was harder for students at lower-ranked schools. I'm somewhat involved with recruiting at my CA firm (V25) and we've trended away from hiring at lower-ranked, regional schools. Unless they're in top 10 (not top 10%), we don't really consider applicants from these schools anymore and have reduced interview spots from OCI.
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:58 am
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:24 am
1. I think it was harder for litigation-only folks than corporate.
2. I think it was harder for students at lower-ranked schools. I'm somewhat involved with recruiting at my CA firm (V25) and we've trended away from hiring at lower-ranked, regional schools. Unless they're in top 10 (not top 10%), we don't really consider applicants from these schools anymore and have reduced interview spots from OCI.
Do you think this means those SAs and incoming first-years recruited for litigation need to be worried about not being busy or getting stealthed? Or is it just that there’s so much more work in corporate right now?
Re: So what's the verdict on this year's OCI cycle?
Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 1:29 pm
by Wubbles
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:58 am
Anonymous User wrote: ↑Mon Mar 22, 2021 8:24 am
1. I think it was harder for litigation-only folks than corporate.
2. I think it was harder for students at lower-ranked schools. I'm somewhat involved with recruiting at my CA firm (V25) and we've trended away from hiring at lower-ranked, regional schools. Unless they're in top 10 (not top 10%), we don't really consider applicants from these schools anymore and have reduced interview spots from OCI.
Do you think this means those SAs and incoming first-years recruited for litigation need to be worried about not being busy or getting stealthed? Or is it just that there’s so much more work in corporate right now?
More likely outcome at some firms is the litigation 1st years work in corporate