2021 Special Bonuses Forum

[Anonymous User]

K&S Atlanta take home per hour comp head and shoulders above NYC Cravath. If I didn't already submit my survey, they would be getting a 10 rating and Cravath a 1.

You have clearly never worked at K&S ATL in M&A.

+1

[Prudent_Jurist]

In other bonus (or lack of bonus) news, Greenberg Traurig CEO and executive chairman bought a RV to roadtrip to all the GT US offices, but no special bonuses in sight.

See https://abovethelaw.com/2021/04/biglaw- ... es-hearts/

[nahumya]

In other bonus (or lack of bonus) news, Greenberg Traurig CEO and executive chairman bought a RV to roadtrip to all the GT US offices, but no special bonuses in sight.

See https://abovethelaw.com/2021/04/biglaw- ... es-hearts/

They're not ones to "follow the pack" to give associates one-time bonuses just because the partners are getting significant raises on associates' backs. No wonder they're always hiring.

[Anonymous User]

GT associate here. Don't want to give away my office (non-NYC, non-MIA, major market - ok just narrowed it down significantly), but earlier in the year before the spring bonuses started they did an all associate call and put up the compensation structure for 2021 for our particular office - bonuses completely unchanged from last year. And yep, this idiotic move with the stupid RV roadtrip by a couple of boomers (the Chairman and CEO) who are completely out of touch with reality (not to mention, part of this idiotic publicity stunt is part of the continued push to force associates back into the office and get rid of WFH, which started months ago when covid rates were out of control and before vaccines were even out yet) ... bottom line is GT is and always has been the cheapest AmLaw 20 firm (hell, one of the cheapest AmLaw 100 firms for that matter and cheaper than some AmLaw 200 firms), the hours we put in are just as high as I've seen anywhere else aside from Wachtell and the high-end boutiques, so it's a sweatshop with a terrible culture. So, associates are livid of course, the ones that can lateral can and will (many already making moves to leave), and no one should ever chose GT (as an incoming associate or lateral) unless it's legitimately you're only option in biglaw and biglaw is really where you want to be (or need to be, because of loans). The few GT associates who would push back on this sentiment are 99% going to be the non-T14 grads in secondary markets where GT is perceived (wrongly) to be the "best" option (Miami is an obvious example) and those associates are more entitled, out of touch with reality, and snobbish than the biggest gunners at my T14. (Btw, as an aside if anyone from our NY office has any further details on how that conversation over the spring bonuses went, would be very curious to hear more by the way).

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

[ExpOriental]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

[2013]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

I think the only firm that could possibly come close to Wachtell on comp is Susman.

Wachtell and Kirkland aren’t peers, so idk why that’s even used as a comparison.

[Anonymous User]

LMAO Wachtell better pay like 225% bonus based on my friend's life even compared to my ruined life at S&C

[ExpOriental]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

I think the only firm that could possibly come close to Wachtell on comp is Susman.

Wachtell and Kirkland aren’t peers, so idk why that’s even used as a comparison.

Right, I say "biglaw" to the exclusion of the above-market lit boutiques, where you'll work Wachtell hours anyways.

Some people seem weirdly invested in putting Kirkland into its own Wachtell-like tier that's head and shoulders above the rest of biglaw, when it's just... not. Certainly not from an associate's perspective, anyways.

The suggestion that there's only a marginal difference in comp between Wachtell and Kirkland is an eyebrow-raiser.

[Anonymous User]

WLRK is providing above market special bonuses this year. One lump sum. Summer. Rumors on this site regarding cuts to year-end bonuses are not true and haven’t been true for at least a decade. I’m sure folks can think of reasons why the firm would not want to advertise its compensation structure to the public.

Anon for obvious reasons. If a mod thinks this post should be de-anonymized for any reason, just delete it instead. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

I think the only firm that could possibly come close to Wachtell on comp is Susman.

Wachtell and Kirkland aren’t peers, so idk why that’s even used as a comparison.

Right, I say "biglaw" to the exclusion of the above-market lit boutiques, where you'll work Wachtell hours anyways.

Some people seem weirdly invested in putting Kirkland into its own Wachtell-like tier that's head and shoulders above the rest of biglaw, when it's just... not. Certainly not from an associate's perspective, anyways.

The suggestion that there's only a marginal difference in comp between Wachtell and Kirkland is an eyebrow-raiser.

Obviously Kirkland is not Wachtell (no firm is) but Kirkland gets separated out from its V10-20 peers during bonus conversations because it consistently pays above market bonuses to basically every associate. I would love to hear of another firm that does this, because then I could go there instead. The 30% premium on my bonus that I get for billing 2400, though, is pretty nice at the end of the year.

[ExpOriental]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

I think the only firm that could possibly come close to Wachtell on comp is Susman.

Wachtell and Kirkland aren’t peers, so idk why that’s even used as a comparison.

Right, I say "biglaw" to the exclusion of the above-market lit boutiques, where you'll work Wachtell hours anyways.

Some people seem weirdly invested in putting Kirkland into its own Wachtell-like tier that's head and shoulders above the rest of biglaw, when it's just... not. Certainly not from an associate's perspective, anyways.

The suggestion that there's only a marginal difference in comp between Wachtell and Kirkland is an eyebrow-raiser.

Obviously Kirkland is not Wachtell (no firm is) but Kirkland gets separated out from its V10-20 peers during bonus conversations because it consistently pays above market bonuses to basically every associate. I would love to hear of another firm that does this, because then I could go there instead. The 30% premium on my bonus that I get for billing 2400, though, is pretty nice at the end of the year.

Then the real question you should be asking is "is the marginal bump in comp worth working at Kirkland?" A 30% bump on just the bonus isn't nothing, but it's not really that much in the grand scheme of things; it's not what I'd call "head and shoulders," anyways. And personally, I will happily forgo a 30% bonus bump if it means billing 2000 vs 2400. It's not even a contest.

Obviously, if you have to work the same hours anyways, and all else being equal, higher pay is better. That goes without question. The real racket is the firms that make you bill 2400+ and only give market comp. Those people are getting shafted.

As an aside, Kirkland definitely isn't the only firm with above market bonuses for high billers; just as an example:

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/01/wilmerh ... 0-bonuses/

Obviously the numbers there are not the same, though.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland and Skadden are just SPAC's R Us at this point. Nothing wrong with that if that's the work you wanna do but I cringe when 30% of their class goes in for lit (unless ur DC)

[Sackboy]

Kirkland and Skadden are just SPAC's R Us at this point. Nothing wrong with that if that's the work you wanna do but I cringe when 30% of their class goes in for lit (unless ur DC)

How is this any more cringe-inducing than either firm pumping out 100s of deals a year? Surprise surprise. Firms that have corporate lawyers indeed do corporate work. Pretty sure both firms also do plenty of lit. Just weird flame.

[Anonymous User]

TLS needs more nonsensical flaming - that's the only value of this forum outside of comp updates

[ExpOriental]

Kirkland and Skadden are just SPAC's R Us at this point. Nothing wrong with that if that's the work you wanna do but I cringe when 30% of their class goes in for lit (unless ur DC)

How is this any more cringe-inducing than either firm pumping out 100s of deals a year? Surprise surprise. Firms that have corporate lawyers indeed do corporate work. Pretty sure both firms also do plenty of lit. Just weird flame.

I'm pretty sure the cringe comes from the "lit" juniors who are just being shunted into SPAC work. I don't think it's unique to Kirkland/Skadden (it's probably worst there though given deal volume), but it would be pretty soul crushing to come in as a starry eyed young litigator only to be handed unending platefuls of SPAC. I also have to wonder if those people will ever be allowed to go back to lit, or if the firms will just say "you're in corporate now, take it or leave it."

[Prudent_Jurist]

GT associate here.

Cold comfort but at least you’re not at Littler where they’re giving out... *drum roll* ... baseball caps.

https://abovethelaw.com/2021/04/biglaw- ... t-instead/

[Anonymous User]

Obviously Kirkland is not Wachtell (no firm is) but Kirkland gets separated out from its V10-20 peers during bonus conversations because it consistently pays above market bonuses to basically every associate. I would love to hear of another firm that does this, because then I could go there instead. The 30% premium on my bonus that I get for billing 2400, though, is pretty nice at the end of the year.

Wait...that's ALL? I thought when people talked about Kirkland shattering comp, 20-30% over market was the baseline and people billing 2400+ got like 50%+ over market. Obviously better than getting market for billing 2,400 but the hourly rate for those extra hours over 2,000 (assuming 2,000 hours is "market") is really bad.

My firm offers 20% over market for people billing 2200+, and it is my goal every year to not get that because it's just not worth it to me. I'm also aware of other firms that give out above market bonuses for high billers (e.g. Latham). So why is it that Kirkland is the only one with this above market comp rep?

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

This is the first I've heard of Wachtell paying under a 100% bonus. What I've heard is that they've been at 100% every year since the GFC.

What possible reason would it have to cut comp? That would be entirely inconsistent with the firm's financial position.

In any case, there's zero doubt in my mind that Wachtell's comp blows Kirkland and all other biglaw out of the water.

I think the only firm that could possibly come close to Wachtell on comp is Susman.

Wachtell and Kirkland aren’t peers, so idk why that’s even used as a comparison.

Right, I say "biglaw" to the exclusion of the above-market lit boutiques, where you'll work Wachtell hours anyways.

Some people seem weirdly invested in putting Kirkland into its own Wachtell-like tier that's head and shoulders above the rest of biglaw, when it's just... not. Certainly not from an associate's perspective, anyways.

The suggestion that there's only a marginal difference in comp between Wachtell and Kirkland is an eyebrow-raiser.

Obviously Kirkland is not Wachtell (no firm is) but Kirkland gets separated out from its V10-20 peers during bonus conversations because it consistently pays above market bonuses to basically every associate. I would love to hear of another firm that does this, because then I could go there instead. The 30% premium on my bonus that I get for billing 2400, though, is pretty nice at the end of the year.

Dunno why Kirkland gets all the hype for it, I guess it's % over market is higher, but pretty much most of the top firms pay over market bonus, e.g. Latham where as long as you're not a complete shitheel you get an above market bonus.

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

They are laughing at us for being excited about this tiny amount of special bonus...

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

They are laughing at us for being excited about this tiny amount of special bonus...

Yup, this has been correct for literally years now. WLRK has been paying regular bonuses of at *at least* 100% of base salary for some time now; in some recent years it's been north of 100%. And yes, it is better than Kirkland, GDC, Quinn, whatever else non-market, hours-based comp model you can think of. A bunch of us did the math a few years back and even Kellogg Hansen's $175k clerkship bonus, together with salary, does not compete with WLRK's as soon as you enter complete 2 years at the firm. The only places that beat it are super-small contingency-based highly-flux litigation firms (think of Dovel & Luner, eg), and maybe, in some years, Susman.

[Anonymous User]

Wait...that's ALL? I thought when people talked about Kirkland shattering comp, 20-30% over market was the baseline and people billing 2400+ got like 50%+ over market. Obviously better than getting market for billing 2,400 but the hourly rate for those extra hours over 2,000 (assuming 2,000 hours is "market") is really bad.

My firm offers 20% over market for people billing 2200+, and it is my goal every year to not get that because it's just not worth it to me. I'm also aware of other firms that give out above market bonuses for high billers (e.g. Latham). So why is it that Kirkland is the only one with this above market comp rep?

Kirkland "shattering" is a meme from like ten years ago when the bonus multiplier was higher. Kirkland bonuses are a function of hours and merit. Every associate gets a merit score from 1 to 5 in annual review. Basically every junior associate gets a 3 (satisfactory) and once you hit midlevel, you can start breaking into 2 (very good) which starts to get those juicy bonus multipliers. I think 1s are quite rare and are used as a signal to keep around seniors who are true partner material. (Meanwhile, a 4 means you should call a recruiter, and I've never heard of anyone getting a 5.)

As a junior with a 3 and about 2300 hours, I got a 1.3x bonus. I think 1.2_x is the firmwide median, but I imagine it's both lower for juniors and pulled down by juniors overweighting it. I know a junior who billed 1800 and got 1.025x, so I think everyone who gets a 3 will beat market no matter their hours.

I know some midlevels and seniors who got 2s as their merit scores and were in the 2500+ hour range (some pushing 3000), and some were in true 2x bonus range. Still not worth it, but like another poster said, if you're going to be crushed you'd rather get as much money as you can for it instead of a smile and a handshake at a lockstep market firm.

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

They are laughing at us for being excited about this tiny amount of special bonus...

Yup, this has been correct for literally years now. WLRK has been paying regular bonuses of at *at least* 100% of base salary for some time now; in some recent years it's been north of 100%. And yes, it is better than Kirkland, GDC, Quinn, whatever else non-market, hours-based comp model you can think of. A bunch of us did the math a few years back and even Kellogg Hansen's $175k clerkship bonus, together with salary, does not compete with WLRK's as soon as you enter complete 2 years at the firm. The only places that beat it are super-small contingency-based highly-flux litigation firms (think of Dovel & Luner, eg), and maybe, in some years, Susman.

Yeah and i get laughed at by my banking friends who's getting 100-150% of base as their bonus, which goes to 200-300K (they are 3rd year IBD associates now and yes it is only for their bonuses, on top of their base salary of another 200K)

Now here I am working at so called V5 law firm in nyc being excited about 30K special bonus that my firm graciously decided to award. I should've gone to banking...

[Anonymous User]

What's the deal with Wachtell? The place is like North Korea; no one who works there seem to say a single word, good or bad - whether about COVID bonuses, spring bonuses or whatever. Place is just a billing machine that never hits the gossip train.

Does anyone know the actual bonus rate at Wachtell? There was some talk that they once paid 100% bonuses, but that it has been reduced in recent years. If a place like Kirkland pays spring/fall special bonus and a high year-end bonus multiple, is the pay at Wachtell really that much better that no one would dare question its compensation model?

They are laughing at us for being excited about this tiny amount of special bonus...

Yup, this has been correct for literally years now. WLRK has been paying regular bonuses of at *at least* 100% of base salary for some time now; in some recent years it's been north of 100%. And yes, it is better than Kirkland, GDC, Quinn, whatever else non-market, hours-based comp model you can think of. A bunch of us did the math a few years back and even Kellogg Hansen's $175k clerkship bonus, together with salary, does not compete with WLRK's as soon as you enter complete 2 years at the firm. The only places that beat it are super-small contingency-based highly-flux litigation firms (think of Dovel & Luner, eg), and maybe, in some years, Susman.

Adding to this list, some firms (Quinn, at one point Boies...) give associates a percentage of origination credit. For the handful of talented business generators in each associate class, this can dwarf even Wachtell's lockstep bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

at one point Boies...

Bless their heart