Pourquoi pas les deux?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 10:57 pmSeems like the vast vast majority of these partners are in corporate practices. Are litigation partners just nicer/more reasonable, or does TLS just lean corporate?
Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for? Forum
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
aslam rawoof. nonshare in Kirkland CapM. was forcibly staffed to one of his deals because few people in capital markets will work under him. He is known in the group to paralegals and associates to be very lazy and to leave junior associates drowning on his deals interfacing with large clients. After I joined the deal team, all of the associates he worked with quit within two weeks of each other. I ended up the only associate left to run this deal. He was unreachable/yellow on skype the entire day that I, a first-year, on my fourth month of the job, filed a 700-page disclosure document with the SEC for his deal with no leeway in timing. He was generally just hostile toward me, couldn't answer basic questions about the field, and once called me his secretary (which Kirkland did absolutely nothing about it despite having email proof). I ended up quitting my job because of my experience working for him. Still have some trauma from it genuinely and after I went to my new job it took me months to stop having anxiety with every new assignment. Felt like working w/ him was the same as just being asked to frequently commit malpractice, tbh. the group is nothing but toxicity. avoid. avoid. AVOID!!
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Wait, I'm Jewish, do I not get to celebrate Thanksgiving and New Years? Dang, I liked turkey.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Fri Jun 10, 2022 12:38 amGenuinely not sure if the sarcasm here is frustration aimed at the partners treatment of holidays or simple antisemitism. Sounds like the ladder.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:43 pmFrom my experience, V10 NYC, only the Jewish holidays are truly respected because of the fact that observers aren't "allowed" to do work, whereas any other holiday (including most importantly Easter) are up for debate or at least welcome to emails (but of course, no one would ever ask/expect the Jewish associate/partner to work/cover for you on those days). It's an incredible double standard that I'm frustrated by, year after year, particularly when I cover for people every single Friday night/Saturday without being asked to, just the very clear expectation.BrowsingTLS wrote: ↑Tue May 17, 2022 8:06 pmLove how this thread has gone far enough off track that we're debating and discussing firm treatment of holidays. FWIW, I think every religious (or no religious) holiday should be recognized to the same degree.
To stay on track, answer to the question is often the partners who expect you to cover for them, constantly, without a thank you.
And for the record, every religious Jewish associate I've worked with has been more than willing to cover for me Easter, Thanksgiving, New years etc and has done so when the need arose. And I am happy to cover for them for shabbat and their holidays.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Sorry to hear that! I am gonna work with k&e capm in LA. Any clue if that group is as toxic? Anyone to avoid?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 7:28 amaslam rawoof. nonshare in Kirkland CapM. was forcibly staffed to one of his deals because few people in capital markets will work under him. He is known in the group to paralegals and associates to be very lazy and to leave junior associates drowning on his deals interfacing with large clients. After I joined the deal team, all of the associates he worked with quit within two weeks of each other. I ended up the only associate left to run this deal. He was unreachable/yellow on skype the entire day that I, a first-year, on my fourth month of the job, filed a 700-page disclosure document with the SEC for his deal with no leeway in timing. He was generally just hostile toward me, couldn't answer basic questions about the field, and once called me his secretary (which Kirkland did absolutely nothing about it despite having email proof). I ended up quitting my job because of my experience working for him. Still have some trauma from it genuinely and after I went to my new job it took me months to stop having anxiety with every new assignment. Felt like working w/ him was the same as just being asked to frequently commit malpractice, tbh. the group is nothing but toxicity. avoid. avoid. AVOID!!
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Of course ATL is running cover for shitty partner behavior and trying to pin a good chunk of this on the associate.12YrsAnAssociate wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:11 pmthis is pretty nuts: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/partner ... voicemail/
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
wow, what on earth is the ATL framing? good lord12YrsAnAssociate wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:11 pmthis is pretty nuts: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/partner ... voicemail/
lol @ losing it over someone not wanting to work through a closing firedrill on a weekend after they put in notice
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Joe Pa is consistently dead fucking wrong, and always really snarky about it. I've worked in biglaw for a long fucking time, and no partner ever yelled at me for leaving work at 10 pm on a Friday. If a partner ever did I'd quit on the spot. If it happened after I had given notice, I'd laugh in the partner's face. In any event, this partner at this firm I've never heard of seems like a nightmare.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:25 pmwow, what on earth is the ATL framing? good lord12YrsAnAssociate wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:11 pmthis is pretty nuts: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/partner ... voicemail/
lol @ losing it over someone not wanting to work through a closing firedrill on a weekend after they put in notice
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
The thing about two-week notice is you’re still working there for the next two weeks. We don’t know anything about this transaction, but if the partner thought this deal would close within that window then why SHOULD she staff another attorney on it?12YrsAnAssociate wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:11 pmthis is pretty nuts: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/partner ... voicemail/
Fascinating commentary. Cannot believe that someone would have this sort of reaction.
And based off what I've read from the fishbowl post, associates at this firm are expected to work later than 10 PM on a Friday while earning literally less than half of what a Biglaw associate makes?Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:41 pmJoe Pa is consistently dead fucking wrong, and always really snarky about it. I've worked in biglaw for a long fucking time, and no partner ever yelled at me for leaving work at 10 pm on a Friday. If a partner ever did I'd quit on the spot. If it happened after I had given notice, I'd laugh in the partner's face. In any event, this partner at this firm I've never heard of seems like a nightmare.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:25 pmwow, what on earth is the ATL framing? good lord12YrsAnAssociate wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:11 pmthis is pretty nuts: https://abovethelaw.com/2022/07/partner ... voicemail/
lol @ losing it over someone not wanting to work through a closing firedrill on a weekend after they put in notice
https://www.fishbowlapp.com/post/i-woul ... h-boutique
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
This vignette also illustrates the dangers of midlaw.
You may work nearly or as hard as your biglaw colleagues, and it’s probably impossible to avoid a toxic partner. For less money.
You may work nearly or as hard as your biglaw colleagues, and it’s probably impossible to avoid a toxic partner. For less money.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Anyone in K&E Debt group to avoid? Joining them soon...
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
So ATL is reduced to trawling fishbowl now?
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
They trawled this place before Fishbowl was a thing, so...
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
I was a member of the staff for many years, Dave always treated staff with the utmost courtesy and respect (I mean that sincerely). You always knew exactly where you stood and he was not at all rude or condescending (not once ever in my long career there). His work was clear and easy to follow. He definitely challenged the lawyers on every level imaginable. Some days it was hard to watch some crumble. I believe he believed you either had it - or you didn't. He was going to find out. If you didn't have it, you couldn't work for his team as a lawyer or a staff member for more than a few days/weeks. Thankfully, I had it, I never once had a problem working for him. I also know a few lawyers who, although completely stressed out from his methods, rose to the occasion and were successful on his team. They were taken to task often and were definitely prepared for any other team. One example would be he surprised attorneys with meetings, they'd show up, he'd be busy and say come back in 20 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat. Then he'd leave for the night and not tell them. I saw how difficult this was when it was 10/11pm and attorneys had several hours of work ahead of them and were running back and forth for meetings that never happened or last minute assignments. It certainly kept them thinking on their feet. So many attorneys used to ask me to monitor his comings and goings because they were always on eggshells. Of course, I kindly and dutifully did so in secret (always be kind to staff, they'll be kind to you). I'd walk into the office to "use the printer" or shoot the breeze with someone just to see if he was there as the green light on IM wasn't always reliable. I, personally, liked him, I liked always knowing exactly where I stood. I wouldn't describe him as friendly, but he always used please and thank you and was very professional.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:53 amHa, this response was either written by Dave/someone in Recruiting at Cravath, or by a very junior associate who knows little about the firm. Dave Marriott is a notorious nightmare to work with. It gives me palpitations just to hear his name. Anyone who has spent more than a few months at Cravath should, at a minimum, not find it "odd" to see his name on this list. It's near-universally known within the firm that anyone assigned to his team needs to find a new job ASAP.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pmAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:02 amugh gross. this isn't an uncommon sight at a lot of the white shoe firms.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:02 amHis rotation is almost always staffed with all women, always withs one asian woman, too, I believe.Sackboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:08 amNot quite what I expected from a MormonAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pmDavid Marriott from Cravath is also as notorious as others I believe.
Hmm...this is odd. I worked with him (but not on his team), and didn’t notice this at all. Was friendly with me, and, at the very least, not “bad” enough that I think he should wind up on this list..
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
My pick...as a staff member...would be Richard Hall. No please or thank you in the world would have stopped the stress working for him. He has very little patience and I used to say "he wants everything yesterday"
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
AmberPlain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:11 pmI was a member of the staff for many years, Dave always treated staff with the utmost courtesy and respect (I mean that sincerely). You always knew exactly where you stood and he was not at all rude or condescending (not once ever in my long career there). His work was clear and easy to follow. He definitely challenged the lawyers on every level imaginable. Some days it was hard to watch some crumble. I believe he believed you either had it - or you didn't. He was going to find out. If you didn't have it, you couldn't work for his team as a lawyer or a staff member for more than a few days/weeks. Thankfully, I had it, I never once had a problem working for him. I also know a few lawyers who, although completely stressed out from his methods, rose to the occasion and were successful on his team. They were taken to task often and were definitely prepared for any other team. One example would be he surprised attorneys with meetings, they'd show up, he'd be busy and say come back in 20 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat. Then he'd leave for the night and not tell them. I saw how difficult this was when it was 10/11pm and attorneys had several hours of work ahead of them and were running back and forth for meetings that never happened or last minute assignments. It certainly kept them thinking on their feet. So many attorneys used to ask me to monitor his comings and goings because they were always on eggshells. Of course, I kindly and dutifully did so in secret (always be kind to staff, they'll be kind to you). I'd walk into the office to "use the printer" or shoot the breeze with someone just to see if he was there as the green light on IM wasn't always reliable. I, personally, liked him, I liked always knowing exactly where I stood. I wouldn't describe him as friendly, but he always used please and thank you and was very professional.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:53 amHa, this response was either written by Dave/someone in Recruiting at Cravath, or by a very junior associate who knows little about the firm. Dave Marriott is a notorious nightmare to work with. It gives me palpitations just to hear his name. Anyone who has spent more than a few months at Cravath should, at a minimum, not find it "odd" to see his name on this list. It's near-universally known within the firm that anyone assigned to his team needs to find a new job ASAP.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pmAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:02 amugh gross. this isn't an uncommon sight at a lot of the white shoe firms.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:02 amHis rotation is almost always staffed with all women, always withs one asian woman, too, I believe.Sackboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:08 amNot quite what I expected from a MormonAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pmDavid Marriott from Cravath is also as notorious as others I believe.
Hmm...this is odd. I worked with him (but not on his team), and didn’t notice this at all. Was friendly with me, and, at the very least, not “bad” enough that I think he should wind up on this list..
Wtf????
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
This sounds like the definition of a partner who is "notoriously terrible to work for." Your weird attempt to defend him has only served to illustrate that this guy is a fucking nightmareAmberPlain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:11 pmI was a member of the staff for many years, Dave always treated staff with the utmost courtesy and respect (I mean that sincerely). You always knew exactly where you stood and he was not at all rude or condescending (not once ever in my long career there). His work was clear and easy to follow. He definitely challenged the lawyers on every level imaginable. Some days it was hard to watch some crumble. I believe he believed you either had it - or you didn't. He was going to find out. If you didn't have it, you couldn't work for his team as a lawyer or a staff member for more than a few days/weeks. Thankfully, I had it, I never once had a problem working for him. I also know a few lawyers who, although completely stressed out from his methods, rose to the occasion and were successful on his team. They were taken to task often and were definitely prepared for any other team. One example would be he surprised attorneys with meetings, they'd show up, he'd be busy and say come back in 20 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat. Then he'd leave for the night and not tell them. I saw how difficult this was when it was 10/11pm and attorneys had several hours of work ahead of them and were running back and forth for meetings that never happened or last minute assignments. It certainly kept them thinking on their feet. So many attorneys used to ask me to monitor his comings and goings because they were always on eggshells. Of course, I kindly and dutifully did so in secret (always be kind to staff, they'll be kind to you). I'd walk into the office to "use the printer" or shoot the breeze with someone just to see if he was there as the green light on IM wasn't always reliable. I, personally, liked him, I liked always knowing exactly where I stood. I wouldn't describe him as friendly, but he always used please and thank you and was very professional.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Mar 21, 2021 11:53 amHa, this response was either written by Dave/someone in Recruiting at Cravath, or by a very junior associate who knows little about the firm. Dave Marriott is a notorious nightmare to work with. It gives me palpitations just to hear his name. Anyone who has spent more than a few months at Cravath should, at a minimum, not find it "odd" to see his name on this list. It's near-universally known within the firm that anyone assigned to his team needs to find a new job ASAP.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:43 pmAnonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 10:02 amugh gross. this isn't an uncommon sight at a lot of the white shoe firms.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 9:02 amHis rotation is almost always staffed with all women, always withs one asian woman, too, I believe.Sackboy wrote: ↑Wed Mar 17, 2021 12:08 amNot quite what I expected from a MormonAnonymous User wrote: ↑Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:24 pmDavid Marriott from Cravath is also as notorious as others I believe.
Hmm...this is odd. I worked with him (but not on his team), and didn’t notice this at all. Was friendly with me, and, at the very least, not “bad” enough that I think he should wind up on this list..
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
You offered an absolutely fabulous example of why somebody would consider him a nightmare to work for. Lawyers, particularly in biglaw, don't need some petulant child wasting their time jerking them around with fake meetings. Anybody who thinks that sort of behavior is acceptable in a professional environment and not extraordinarily disrespectful towards the people who work for him has no business managing other people.AmberPlain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:11 pmOne example would be he surprised attorneys with meetings, they'd show up, he'd be busy and say come back in 20 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat. Then he'd leave for the night and not tell them. I saw how difficult this was when it was 10/11pm and attorneys had several hours of work ahead of them and were running back and forth for meetings that never happened or last minute assignments. It certainly kept them thinking on their feet. So many attorneys used to ask me to monitor his comings and goings because they were always on eggshells. Of course, I kindly and dutifully did so in secret (always be kind to staff, they'll be kind to you). I'd walk into the office to "use the printer" or shoot the breeze with someone just to see if he was there as the green light on IM wasn't always reliable. I, personally, liked him, I liked always knowing exactly where I stood. I wouldn't describe him as friendly, but he always used please and thank you and was very professional.
If I set a meeting with another person, I will be there on time, regardless of whether they're my boss, client, or summer intern. If I can't be there for any reason, I'll let the other party know ASAP and either have somebody cover for me or reschedule the meeting. That's what courteous, mature professionals do. Please, do not make the mistake of acting like the man you're defending if you ever manage other people.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Tbf, I didn't read this poster as saying he wasn't a nightmare for attorneys to work for, just that he was good to staff. I think the poster understood that yanking people around with fake meetings is bad.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Someone give me a notoriously bad partner in KE restructuring please! Chicago if possible but I'll take NY too.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
The "always be kind to staff they'll be kind to you" is also a weird thing to say. Sure, it's good advice and generally good to be kind. But when coming from staff it sounds vaguely...threatening? Were you not nice to associates you decided you didn't like?
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
There’s a difference between being scrupulously professional and going the extra mile to help someone out. This is a super common thing. If staff like you they can save your ass in so many ways, if they don’t, they’ll do what they’re required to do but nothing more. People have acknowledged this a ton of times and it isn’t weird for a staff member to comment on it.Anonymous User wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:59 pmThe "always be kind to staff they'll be kind to you" is also a weird thing to say. Sure, it's good advice and generally good to be kind. But when coming from staff it sounds vaguely...threatening? Were you not nice to associates you decided you didn't like?
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
I once worked with a partner who was bad at keeping meetings on time and would regularly reschedule at the last minute, simply because he was a totally ditzy disorganized goof. However, he was super kind and apologetic and was clearly not doing it on purpose.lavarman84 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:19 pmYou offered an absolutely fabulous example of why somebody would consider him a nightmare to work for. Lawyers, particularly in biglaw, don't need some petulant child wasting their time jerking them around with fake meetings. Anybody who thinks that sort of behavior is acceptable in a professional environment and not extraordinarily disrespectful towards the people who work for him has no business managing other people.AmberPlain wrote: ↑Sat Jul 30, 2022 8:11 pmOne example would be he surprised attorneys with meetings, they'd show up, he'd be busy and say come back in 20 minutes, lather, rinse, repeat. Then he'd leave for the night and not tell them. I saw how difficult this was when it was 10/11pm and attorneys had several hours of work ahead of them and were running back and forth for meetings that never happened or last minute assignments. It certainly kept them thinking on their feet. So many attorneys used to ask me to monitor his comings and goings because they were always on eggshells. Of course, I kindly and dutifully did so in secret (always be kind to staff, they'll be kind to you). I'd walk into the office to "use the printer" or shoot the breeze with someone just to see if he was there as the green light on IM wasn't always reliable. I, personally, liked him, I liked always knowing exactly where I stood. I wouldn't describe him as friendly, but he always used please and thank you and was very professional.
If I set a meeting with another person, I will be there on time, regardless of whether they're my boss, client, or summer intern. If I can't be there for any reason, I'll let the other party know ASAP and either have somebody cover for me or reschedule the meeting. That's what courteous, mature professionals do. Please, do not make the mistake of acting like the man you're defending if you ever manage other people.
I have avoided him ever since because even though it wasn’t malicious, it’s a frustrating way to work with someone. No hard feelings, just gonna avoid.
But this Cravath douche? To do that on purpose (along with a bunch of other weird things) just to mess with associates? That’s some psycho shit. Fuck him, and fuck this staff member trying to support him. If that had happened to me, I would plot ways to secretly ruin his life/career (punching him in the face being the better and totally deserved option, but one that’s not really on the table as a lawyer), then lateral.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
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Last edited by Anonymous User on Sun Jul 16, 2023 4:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for?
Yikes re: that Cravath partner. I feel horrific if I have to reschedule meetings with associates--the fact that I bill out my time at a higher rate and have a more crowded calendar does not make it ok to waste other peoples' time. Jeez. End of day, we all only have a certain number of hours on this marble and everyone deserves respect for theirs.
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