Which partners at your firms are notoriously terrible to work for? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Gotta say I’m a little surprised. Not just because of the “social justice” airs of the place but also bc she came out of Paul Weiss, which I feel has a (unearned?) reputation as one of the nicer and more genteel white shoes.

Really? Paul Weiss corporate has long been seen as a terrible place to work, even pre-Barshay - clients, partners, the works. Litigation may be slightly different, but with their volume and size of cases it doesn’t surprise me that partners are often on edge. (Also, minor thing, but I hadn’t considered them “white shoe” - Vault-ranked, definitely, but WS was usually a term for older Waspy firms: Cravath, S&C, DPW, STB, Debevoise. Daft distinction nowadays, since ethnically every firm has about the same mix, across the board.)

[Anonymous User]

Vicious name-calling and yelling; spreading horrible rumors (including to clients) about people who left the firm; unbearable workload. The hypocrisy is only the tip of the iceberg.

Is this about Kaplan Hecker? Or an earlier post?

Kaplan Hecker

The judge I worked for strongly steered their clerks away from Kaplan Hecker because of its poor work environment.

I've also heard terrible things about the work environment at Kaplan Hecker, even relative to other small elite litigation shops that are demanding and intense. Pretty sure it starts right at the top with the named partner, but trickles down as well. I had a friend and a (different) former colleague there, and they don't deny it, just change the topic. It's gotten to the point where I was on the phone with a recruiter, and the recruiter referenced it as a pretty well known fact. I passed on that application, lol...

Extremely unfortunate. Was once on a call where she forgot to mute herself and we all heard her screaming at the person in the room with her - just vicious and completely unnecessary. On the other hand, Hecker seems really kind and easy to work with - spoken to people who work with him/across from him often and they only have positive things to say.

Gotta say I’m a little surprised. Not just because of the “social justice” airs of the place but also bc she came out of Paul Weiss, which I feel has a (unearned?) reputation as one of the nicer and more genteel white shoes.

I think that's the first time I've heard Paul (comma) Weiss described as one of the "genteel" white shoes. They fall more into the Skadden camp of firms (welcoming in a fratty way, I suppose). Debbie/STB/DPW are the "nice" ones (in quotes because it's basically a super polished facade of passive-aggressiveness...OK, maybe it really is nice at Debevoise bc I don't think I've seen any posts about their partners ITT). S&C/CSM are the hard-charging, in-your-face duo. Maybe less so at S&C bc they're kind of awkward lol.

[Anonymous User]

Gotta say I’m a little surprised. Not just because of the “social justice” airs of the place but also bc she came out of Paul Weiss, which I feel has a (unearned?) reputation as one of the nicer and more genteel white shoes.

Really? Paul Weiss corporate has long been seen as a terrible place to work, even pre-Barshay - clients, partners, the works. Litigation may be slightly different, but with their volume and size of cases it doesn’t surprise me that partners are often on edge. (Also, minor thing, but I hadn’t considered them “white shoe” - Vault-ranked, definitely, but WS was usually a term for older Waspy firms: Cravath, S&C, DPW, STB, Debevoise. Daft distinction nowadays, since ethnically every firm has about the same mix, across the board.)

Second this. wHiTe sHoE doesn't include PW/Skadden/WLRK.

[Anonymous User]

Gotta say I’m a little surprised. Not just because of the “social justice” airs of the place but also bc she came out of Paul Weiss, which I feel has a (unearned?) reputation as one of the nicer and more genteel white shoes.

Really? Paul Weiss corporate has long been seen as a terrible place to work, even pre-Barshay - clients, partners, the works. Litigation may be slightly different, but with their volume and size of cases it doesn’t surprise me that partners are often on edge. (Also, minor thing, but I hadn’t considered them “white shoe” - Vault-ranked, definitely, but WS was usually a term for older Waspy firms: Cravath, S&C, DPW, STB, Debevoise. Daft distinction nowadays, since ethnically every firm has about the same mix, across the board.)

Second this. wHiTe sHoE doesn't include PW/Skadden/WLRK.

You take that back right now.


Cahill Gordon & Reindel
Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
Greenberg Traurig
Jones Day
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel
O'Melveny & Myers
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
Proskauer Rose
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
Weil, Gotshal & Manges


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/whiteshoe.asp

[thisismytlsuername]

Gotta say I’m a little surprised. Not just because of the “social justice” airs of the place but also bc she came out of Paul Weiss, which I feel has a (unearned?) reputation as one of the nicer and more genteel white shoes.

Really? Paul Weiss corporate has long been seen as a terrible place to work, even pre-Barshay - clients, partners, the works. Litigation may be slightly different, but with their volume and size of cases it doesn’t surprise me that partners are often on edge. (Also, minor thing, but I hadn’t considered them “white shoe” - Vault-ranked, definitely, but WS was usually a term for older Waspy firms: Cravath, S&C, DPW, STB, Debevoise. Daft distinction nowadays, since ethnically every firm has about the same mix, across the board.)

Second this. wHiTe sHoE doesn't include PW/Skadden/WLRK.

You take that back right now.


Cahill Gordon & Reindel
Cleary, Gottlieb, Steen & Hamilton
Fried, Frank, Harris, Shriver & Jacobson
Greenberg Traurig
Jones Day
Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel
O'Melveny & Myers
Paul, Weiss, Rifkind, Wharton & Garrison
Proskauer Rose
Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan
Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom
Wachtell, Lipton, Rosen & Katz
Weil, Gotshal & Manges


https://www.investopedia.com/terms/w/whiteshoe.asp

This list doesn't make any sense. "White shoe" means old WASPy firms that didn't allow Jewish people to work there. Quinn wasn't even founded until 1986, let alone the other issues with this list.

[Anonymous User]

Lol @ fried frank being "white shoe". Place literally sounds like a deli.

[Anonymous User]

Lol @ fried frank being "white shoe". Place literally sounds like a deli.

Love to see anti-semitic humor coming from anons!

[Anonymous User]

Lol @ fried frank being "white shoe". Place literally sounds like a deli.

Love to see anti-semitic humor coming from anons!

Nice try but I'm Jewish.

[bluecrab5448]

Can we get back to mean partners and not which firms count as gEnTeeL WhiTe ShOE? Dumbest discussion ever.

[Anonymous User]

Happy to get this back on track – noticed plenty of negatives about STB M&A partners. Does this carry over into cap markets as well?

[Anonymous User]

Any K&E finance people to look out for? Recently interviewed for that group.

[Anonymous User]

Would love to hear about people to avoid at Kirkland litigation, DC but also NY office. Please and thank you!!

[Anonymous User]

Any word on partners to avoid at Gibson DC in lit?

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

[Anonymous User]

Any insights on STB la?

[Anonymous User]

Jonathan Schiller (at my old firm). The actual worst person I’ve ever worked with, for, whatever. Everyone that came up under him became terrible too. Stockholm syndrome.

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

Can’t speak for other offices but this is def case in MoFo SF Corp unfortunately.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone in S&C lit?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone in S&C lit?

I was in lit at S&C until fairly recently and can honestly say that I didn't (personally) have a negative experience with any of the partners I worked with. I have heard second-hand, though, that there are folks in the LA office you want to avoid.

[Anonymous User]

What about Debevoise lit? Asking for cyber and white collar in particular.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on people from Kirkland NY litigation? I hear it's a different place now ever since Sandra Goldstein came over from Cravath and brought some lieutenants in with her a while back.

Any perspectives or opinions on culture changes or what she and her team are like (either from her Cravath days or at KE)?

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

Can’t speak for other offices but this is def case in MoFo SF Corp unfortunately.

Have heard absolutely horrendous anecdotes about associate life in the MoFo SF corp group. You couldn't pay me enough to work there.

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

Can’t speak for other offices but this is def case in MoFo SF Corp unfortunately.

Have heard absolutely horrendous anecdotes about associate life in the MoFo SF corp group. You couldn't pay me enough to work there.

What have you heard? the hours? toxic partners/senior associates?

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

Can’t speak for other offices but this is def case in MoFo SF Corp unfortunately.

Have heard absolutely horrendous anecdotes about associate life in the MoFo SF corp group. You couldn't pay me enough to work there.

What have you heard? the hours? toxic partners/senior associates?

The hours and the general sweatshop vibes are the big things -- mostly partners creating unreasonable/unnecessary internal deadlines for things and being very demanding/inflexible (even for BigLaw standards).

[Anonymous User]

Fredo Silva and Suz Mac Cormac at MoFo SF are verbally abusive to associates and it's well known at the firm. Just really terrible people to work with, avoid at all costs.

Is MOFO corp generally not a good place to work?

Can’t speak for other offices but this is def case in MoFo SF Corp unfortunately.

Have heard absolutely horrendous anecdotes about associate life in the MoFo SF corp group. You couldn't pay me enough to work there.

What have you heard? the hours? toxic partners/senior associates?

The hours and the general sweatshop vibes are the big things -- mostly partners creating unreasonable/unnecessary internal deadlines for things and being very demanding/inflexible (even for BigLaw standards).

are associates billing over 2300 hrs there? is that the case for a specific practice group or all their corp groups in general?