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Would you say this is still true? It seems like White & Case was getting lots of hate on TLS like 5-10 years ago, but there seems to have been a sharp turnaround recently. Do you think this is largely due to the firm's PR efforts, or is it really the case that a lot of people are actually choosing White & Case over the Cravaths and Simpsons of the world?

Sharp turnaround is a bit of an overstatement. Barring the recent jokes on here, most people seem pretty tepid toward it. It's a fine shop, but I doubt that many are going there over Simpson or Cravath.

BrainsyK wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:37 am

Sharp turnaround is a bit of an overstatement. Barring the recent jokes on here, most people seem pretty tepid toward it. It's a fine shop, but I doubt that many are going there over Simpson or Cravath.

As a fourth year associate, I had competing offers coming out of law school. White & Case was an offer in a smaller market I had connections to and was interested in living in. I took the brass ring and went to the NY V10. No doubt that the V10 looks better on my resume and it may help me down the road when I'm exiting biglaw, but occasionally I wonder if I'd basically already have a house, friends nearby, and a better quality of life if I'd just taken the W&C offer. The pay would be the same, after all. I'm just saying this reputation hierarchy stuff doesn't mean much after a few years, so if you can make your decision based on other considerations, that's best.

this question has been asked/answered a lot here, but concur 100% with the above. W&Case is a fine shop, very solid firm, but the cream does not generally go there

Anyone who doesn’t recognize that W&C is now regarded in the Cravath / Debevoise / WLRK tier is living in 1999. Take the offer if you have it.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 3:29 pm

Anyone who doesn’t recognize that W&C is now regarded in the Cravath / Debevoise / WLRK tier is living in 1999. Take the offer if you have it.

Yale/Columbia memes are so 2018. If you act now, you can get in early on the Wachtell/White & Case meme! Headed to the moon! Get in before the squeezes and congressional hearings!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 9:29 am

BrainsyK wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 12, 2021 2:37 am

Sharp turnaround is a bit of an overstatement. Barring the recent jokes on here, most people seem pretty tepid toward it. It's a fine shop, but I doubt that many are going there over Simpson or Cravath.

As a fourth year associate, I had competing offers coming out of law school. White & Case was an offer in a smaller market I had connections to and was interested in living in. I took the brass ring and went to the NY V10. No doubt that the V10 looks better on my resume and it may help me down the road when I'm exiting biglaw, but occasionally I wonder if I'd basically already have a house, friends nearby, and a better quality of life if I'd just taken the W&C offer. The pay would be the same, after all. I'm just saying this reputation hierarchy stuff doesn't mean much after a few years, so if you can make your decision based on other considerations, that's best.

This is the point that carries the day.

Once you approach mid level at a v30 or so firm that pays market, you’ll realize that all the stuff that goes around about biglaw hierarchy on this forum doesn’t really matter. Is cravath, etc. better than Morgan Lewis or hogan Lovells or Holland and knight or whatever? Of course.

But you’ll find that it does. not. matter. And, insofar as it does (or arguably does) matter, it certainly doesn’t matter proportionately to everything else, when you can do a casual 2050 per year (graduating from, say, top third at BU law) for a decade at one of these v30s...while you have partners at debevoise or Quinn or whatever telling you you’re not doing nearly enough at 2300 pace (see thread from earlier this week Re: that).

That’s why the whole idea of market pay is so weird. What are you really getting at a s&c that you aren’t getting at Goodwin? Can you quantify it? If so, is it worth it given that you’re making the same salary as your counterpart at Goodwin?

Food for thought for t14 1Ls.

Counterpoint: Goodwin laid off a large number of associates at the outset of the pandemic. Higher-ranked firms didn’t do mass layoffs, didn’t cut salaries and summer pay, and paid special bonuses.

In general I agree that someone spending several years in biglaw is probably better off going to a firm/group where they can earn market billing 1900 hours vs. billing 25% more for the same pay. But in times of economic uncertainly one might favor the security of a V10.

I’ve also found that practice groups at lower-ranked firms can be far more dependent on one or two key rainmakers. If they leave or retire, the associates are in trouble. Be careful before going to a group where one 62-year old partner brings in half the business.