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Assume for a moment that (1) I am a very good M&A senior associate in a very busy market and (2) if I didn’t move firms, I would otherwise make partner in a few years at my current firm. Top 10% grades from a T14 school. No portable clients or work.

And assume I wanted to lateral purely for as much short- to medium-term economic benefit as possible.

What’s the largest upfront or staggered cash bonus package you know of or have heard of for a lateral associate? I’m trying to get a sense of my overall market value as I figure out how to proceed. Thanks for the help.

When I was lateraling, recruiters I spoke with regularly threw out $50k as a potential bonus amount at some of the busier groups for my practice area (Latham, Kirkland, etc.) for a midlevel. I ended up going to a firm that I didn’t think I would burn out at within the first year and unfortunately took a smaller bonus.

So $50k is probably the floor. I see recruiters posting about six figure signing bonuses. Not sure if they’re being truthful, but I’m assuming if they are, those amounts are probably for senior associates.

I've heard of K&E throwing around as much as $100k for mid/senior levels. I think in general established firms aggressively expanding into secondary markets are they way to go if you're looking for a big signing bonus.

My Latham office would give you $50k+ right now. We busy.

Then you ask for a guaranteed full annual bonus, not prorated hours. Probably the best way to get a lot of $$$ in a few months.

Madden_Arps wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:26 am

I've heard of K&E throwing around as much as $100k for mid/senior levels. I think in general established firms aggressively expanding into secondary markets are they way to go if you're looking for a big signing bonus.

Yeah I know a low midlevel who went to K&E and got $75k

I was negotiating with K&E for a while two years ago when they opened the Dallas office and they offered $100k to me as a senior associate.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:35 pm

I was negotiating with K&E for a while two years ago when they opened the Dallas office and they offered $100k to me as a senior associate.

There were a few senior associates/counsel in the K&E/Dallas opening that purportedly were receiving $250k, inclusive of the annual bonus amount.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:59 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 1:35 pm

I was negotiating with K&E for a while two years ago when they opened the Dallas office and they offered $100k to me as a senior associate.

There were a few senior associates/counsel in the K&E/Dallas opening that purportedly were receiving $250k, inclusive of the annual bonus amount.

Similarly, I can confirm that K&E offered to make senior associates/midlevels “whole”’on their missed year-end bonuses from my firm if they joined KE, which would’ve been well into the six figures even for the midlevels.

(Anon because the firm is easy to guess and do not want to out myself on a public forum. If improper use of anon please just delete this post entirely.)

TLDR: joining K&E right now is probably going to be the best bang for anyone’s buck if they want to lateral to a random biglaw firm and get $$$$$ for doing so.

On the above points, this is probably a situation where avoiding a recruiter would be helpful. A firm willing to pay $100k+ bonus with a recruiter is likely willing to pay more without having the recruiter fee tied to the hire.

What are the circumstances here? The only people who are definitely going to make partner at their firms despite no portable business who would derive an "economic benefit" from lateraling are from firms that, in all likelihood, Biglaw isn't going to hire from.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:20 pm

What are the circumstances here? The only people who are definitely going to make partner at their firms despite no portable business who would derive an "economic benefit" from lateraling are from firms that, in all likelihood, Biglaw isn't going to hire from.

The circumstances are just as I stated above, and I think your statement is true with respect to long-term economic benefit. But if I were looking to maximize my short to medium-term economics (as I said I am), a lateral move to a peer firm (from a PPP/revenue perspective) with a substantial signing bonus would be the way to do it. I’m trying to get a sense of how the market would value a candidate like me, both to think about the attractiveness of a move and to inform what my current firm may be willing to do on the compensation front in the short term.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:20 pm

What are the circumstances here? The only people who are definitely going to make partner at their firms despite no portable business who would derive an "economic benefit" from lateraling are from firms that, in all likelihood, Biglaw isn't going to hire from.

I mean, I would imagine that a 5th-7th year at Cravath/Davis Polk/S&C wouldn’t be able to bring any business with them but would be attractive to K&E.

Kirkland is paying their associates $50k now for lateral referrals, so another option is to find a law school friend to refer you and agree to split the bonus. Maybe they give you $100k or something close to it officially, plus your additional $25k cut.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:52 pm

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑

Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:20 pm

What are the circumstances here? The only people who are definitely going to make partner at their firms despite no portable business who would derive an "economic benefit" from lateraling are from firms that, in all likelihood, Biglaw isn't going to hire from.

The circumstances are just as I stated above, and I think your statement is true with respect to long-term economic benefit. But if I were looking to maximize my short to medium-term economics (as I said I am), a lateral move to a peer firm (from a PPP/revenue perspective) with a substantial signing bonus would be the way to do it. I’m trying to get a sense of how the market would value a candidate like me, both to think about the attractiveness of a move and to inform what my current firm may be willing to do on the compensation front in the short term.

Yeah, I read it, it just didn't make much sense. If you could lateral anywhere, you must be in Biglaw, and if you're in Biglaw and assuming you're gonna make partner, you're thinking you'll be making seven figures even in the medium term without a book currently. People who believe that very rarely are looking to leave solely for a signing bonus somewhere else. So either (1) one of the premises is wrong, (2) you know you're not staying at your firm for the long term regardless of potential rewards, whether by your accord or theirs or (3) there's some extenuating circumstance you haven't told us about. Any of the three might affect lateral advice.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 1:21 pm

Yeah, I read it, it just didn't make much sense. If you could lateral anywhere, you must be in Biglaw, and if you're in Biglaw and assuming you're gonna make partner, you're thinking you'll be making seven figures even in the medium term without a book currently. People who believe that very rarely are looking to leave solely for a signing bonus somewhere else. So either (1) one of the premises is wrong, (2) you know you're not staying at your firm for the long term regardless of potential rewards, whether by your accord or theirs or (3) there's some extenuating circumstance you haven't told us about. Any of the three might affect lateral advice.

Agreed, if you're thinking you will make partner in a few years at current firm, you wouldn't be looking to trade that in for a quick $50-100k cash grab now. And an M&A senior associate without a portable book isn't going to make partner somewhere else, so if you're really going to make partner in a few years, you would be losing out on hundreds of thousands to millions of dollars in just a few years. Just doesn't make sense.

It would make sense if you have no desire to actually be a partner, but doesn't make sense to mention it then.

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:34 pm

It would make sense if you have no desire to actually be a partner, but doesn't make sense to mention it then.

Not that sudden burnout isn't real, but the Venn diagram of "people who would turn down Biglaw partnership if offered" and "people who ever become "very busy" senior associates in the first place" has very little overlap.

Maybe he has cancer and is going to die in 2 years.
Why do we care?

Let me reiterate what I said above: I’m trying to get a sense of how the market would value a candidate like me, both to think about the attractiveness of a move and to inform what my current firm may be willing to do on the compensation front in the short term.

You can trust that I’m perfectly capable of assessing why and whether to make a lateral move, and have a keen awareness of the long term effects, financial and otherwise, of the various alternatives. I am also not looking for lateral advice or guidance, though I appreciate the helpfulness of those that have contributed it. I’m just trying to gather some data about what others have seen in the market in terms of lateral bonuses and other incentives.

Lateral firms know almost nothing of your worth outside of seniority, practice group and law school credentials. Two of the worst associates I've ever worked with (V100) latereld to a high prestige V10/V10s.
So simply put that entire reputation you've built is worth nothing in the lateral process other than maybe finding it easier to BS in 30 minute conversational interviews.

jonbonjovi wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 5:42 pm

Let me reiterate what I said above: I’m trying to get a sense of how the market would value a candidate like me, both to think about the attractiveness of a move and to inform what my current firm may be willing to do on the compensation front in the short term.

You can trust that I’m perfectly capable of assessing why and whether to make a lateral move, and have a keen awareness of the long term effects, financial and otherwise, of the various alternatives. I am also not looking for lateral advice or guidance, though I appreciate the helpfulness of those that have contributed it. I’m just trying to gather some data about what others have seen in the market in terms of lateral bonuses and other incentives.

If you asked me what the quickest way to lose weight is, and I told you to chop your leg off, do you see why an answer that's technically correct isn't actually helpful in the context of normal circumstances? And do you say why "I'm not looking for advice on losing weight" and "I'm not looking for advice on which limbs I should keep" are different statements?

You described an odd situation that begged for more context, and then responded on a throwaway like a robot fucked a press secretary. I don't know if you're hiding something that's so unique it would instantly out you or if you just genuinely think you have the whole thing figured out, but in any event, there's no such thing as fully separating short-term and long-term considerations; they're constantly informing one another. If you were interested in literally "purely short-term financial interest," the advice would be to max out your credit cards, stop paying your rent, and do your job remotely from a cheap town in Thailand. When you lateral, do you give a shit if your bonus is clawed back when you dip immediately? If you stay the year, do you care if you miss out on a bonus payment a few months after that? All of these questions are relevant to if and how you do this, and any answer without full context is inherently incomplete.

If you didn't know, this website is full of people asking questions like "What's the best way to go to Touro at sticker?" with a bunch of replies saying "Don't do that at all" and indignant OPs going "That wasn't what I asked; I already decided I'm doing the dumb thing, trust me, I've got it all figured out!", and insisting something has to be done or cannot be done for no good reason is not how good discourse works here.

Since you want practical, direct advice--if you are asking for anything above your firm's normal bonus scale (which I assume you're getting, being "very busy" and partner material), if you don't have wildly extenuating circumstances, asking for more money by highlighting that Firm ABC is willing to give you X dollars as a signing bonus is going to get you laughed out of any Biglaw partner's office.

I lateraled last year as a sixth year and negotiated an 80k signing bonus. As the other posters suggest, I think you could potentially negotiate more.

Monochromatic Oeuvre wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 4:56 pm

lolwutpar wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 2:34 pm

It would make sense if you have no desire to actually be a partner, but doesn't make sense to mention it then.

Not that sudden burnout isn't real, but the Venn diagram of "people who would turn down Biglaw partnership if offered" and "people who ever become "very busy" senior associates in the first place" has very little overlap.

Not OP, and I fit in your Venn diagram, so I believe OP is actually crazy enough to do this.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:24 pm

I lateraled last year as a sixth year and negotiated an 80k signing bonus. As the other posters suggest, I think you could potentially negotiate more.

The problem is that OP's questions is fundamentally idiotic. Either OP is at a good firm in an in-demand practice area and isn't going to make partner, in which case, their fact pattern is wrong and they should lateral and can get some number ranging from $75k to $200k. Or, OP is at a biglaw firm and is going to make partner, in which case, their fact pattern is correct and they would have to be the biggest idiot in biglaw to give up a massive increase in earning power over a lifetime for a $75k to $200k one-time bump. OP is thinking of this as "I can lateral, get a shitload of signing bonus and be guaranteed partnership", which is a bad assumption to make and one they haven't introduced into their facts.

FWIW, I've never heard of a star senior associate at a top firm (think at least v25) getting a top-up on comp -- if the associate is that good they don't need to demand a one-time additional $200k or whatever, they can demand something different and better.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 11, 2021 12:25 am

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Wed Mar 10, 2021 10:24 pm

I lateraled last year as a sixth year and negotiated an 80k signing bonus. As the other posters suggest, I think you could potentially negotiate more.

The problem is that OP's questions is fundamentally idiotic. Either OP is at a good firm in an in-demand practice area and isn't going to make partner, in which case, their fact pattern is wrong and they should lateral and can get some number ranging from $75k to $200k. Or, OP is at a biglaw firm and is going to make partner, in which case, their fact pattern is correct and they would have to be the biggest idiot in biglaw to give up a massive increase in earning power over a lifetime for a $75k to $200k one-time bump. OP is thinking of this as "I can lateral, get a shitload of signing bonus and be guaranteed partnership", which is a bad assumption to make and one they haven't introduced into their facts.

FWIW, I've never heard of a star senior associate at a top firm (think at least v25) getting a top-up on comp -- if the associate is that good they don't need to demand a one-time additional $200k or whatever, they can demand something different and better.

From my reading of the fact pattern, I'm guessing OP is a top associate at a well-respected biglaw firm who is on-track to make partner, but is looking to exit biglaw/law altogether in 2-3 years regardless of how good at it they are. So they are trying to maximize their 2-3 year earnings because they are leaving without partnership either way.