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Hi TLS,

Maybe you could help me out. A little background: HYS, Law Review, Clerked.

But currently at a V10-20 corporate. Realized I might be more interested in a tech heavy firm as opposed to one that focuses mainly on banking, insurance, PE. Sadly this firm doesn't do a lot of tech work. So probably looking to lateral to the West Coast. What firms should I look at? How should I do this? (recruiter?) and is it easy to do as a first year? (ideally would get placed in a general corporate pool).

i think a lot of them are bursting at the seams and are hiring. dont use a recruiter. just apply to the firms directly - there's only a handful of them anyway.

What is wrong with using a recruiter? Is it slower? Or am I less competitive?

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm

What is wrong with using a recruiter? Is it slower? Or am I less competitive?

You lose money and control over the process. You have a strong resume, so lateraling to the West Coast shouldn't be too hard. I'm assuming you didn't go to Stanford, otherwise you'd probably already know this.

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 3:53 pm

Hi TLS,

Maybe you could help me out. A little background: HYS, Law Review, Clerked.

But currently at a V10-20 corporate. Realized I might be more interested in a tech heavy firm as opposed to one that focuses mainly on banking, insurance, PE. Sadly this firm doesn't do a lot of tech work. So probably looking to lateral to the West Coast. What firms should I look at? How should I do this? (recruiter?) and is it easy to do as a first year? (ideally would get placed in a general corporate pool).

OP, feel free to DM me.

What kind of tech? If at all interested in biotech, San Diego (LW or Cooley) is a good bet. If tech tech, then obviously you're gonna need to go to SF/SV, though my understanding is that SF corporate work at some V5 shops like KE are more fund based. Just be extra careful the new firm does company side rep.

Also happy to talk OP if you want to PM.

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm

What is wrong with using a recruiter? Is it slower? Or am I less competitive?

what publius said. there is minimal value to using a recruiter - they will submit generic poorly written cover letters, they are an unnecessary middle man delaying and obfuscating information received from the firm's recruiting dept, they decrease your leverage in negotiating a signing bonus (as a first year, they are already costing your application $50k), etc. the background info they give you on a firm is all publicly available and you are capable of finding that information on your own with 30 minutes of googling. and as noted previously, because there are only a handful of firms specializing in this area, it won't take you long to dupe out applications to each place.

OP, also don’t use random referral contacts from tls. They only care about getting that referral bonus, and will probably ghost you after submitting.

You probably have a ton of classmates at these other firms. Use them.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:00 pm

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm

What is wrong with using a recruiter? Is it slower? Or am I less competitive?

what publius said. there is minimal value to using a recruiter - they will submit generic poorly written cover letters, they are an unnecessary middle man delaying and obfuscating information received from the firm's recruiting dept, they decrease your leverage in negotiating a signing bonus (as a first year, they are already costing your application $50k), etc. the background info they give you on a firm is all publicly available and you are capable of finding that information on your own with 30 minutes of googling. and as noted previously, because there are only a handful of firms specializing in this area, it won't take you long to dupe out applications to each place.

The one caveat I'd put is that when I lateraled I spoke to several recruiters, including one of the big shops. I wasn't looking urgently, so a few months had gone by, and they reached out to say that they were retained to run the recruitment process for a firm for a position that fit my profile, and it wasn't public. I ended up doing the whole process and taking the job. I was curious to see if the position ever was made public, so I kept tabs, but never saw it. I wouldn't have ever known there was that opportunity without the recruiter. That said, this is for general corp, so not a niche where you can blast an app to all 3-10 firms that do that work, but it was one instance of value add from using a recruiter.

OP here. Thanks for all the advice.

Went to Stanford. Just very hesitant about reaching out to random TLS PMs especially when I'm trying to keep it on the DL. But thanks to all that offered. I might hit you all up. But how competitive are places like Cooley? They seem to be doing some amazing tech work and really want to get in. I just think I didn't really know what I liked when I first started out (I mean many of us still don't know).

Piggybacking on the OP. I'm a first year T14 grad in general corporate at a v10 looking to retool into tech transactions. Open to geography but would prefer not to be in SV. Thanks!

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 7:00 pm

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Fri Mar 05, 2021 5:12 pm

What is wrong with using a recruiter? Is it slower? Or am I less competitive?

what publius said. there is minimal value to using a recruiter - they will submit generic poorly written cover letters, they are an unnecessary middle man delaying and obfuscating information received from the firm's recruiting dept, they decrease your leverage in negotiating a signing bonus (as a first year, they are already costing your application $50k), etc. the background info they give you on a firm is all publicly available and you are capable of finding that information on your own with 30 minutes of googling. and as noted previously, because there are only a handful of firms specializing in this area, it won't take you long to dupe out applications to each place.

The one caveat I'd put is that when I lateraled I spoke to several recruiters, including one of the big shops. I wasn't looking urgently, so a few months had gone by, and they reached out to say that they were retained to run the recruitment process for a firm for a position that fit my profile, and it wasn't public. I ended up doing the whole process and taking the job. I was curious to see if the position ever was made public, so I kept tabs, but never saw it. I wouldn't have ever known there was that opportunity without the recruiter. That said, this is for general corp, so not a niche where you can blast an app to all 3-10 firms that do that work, but it was one instance of value add from using a recruiter.

right - exclusives/unlisted positions would be the only exception and if a position is unlisted, the agency will likely lead with that. lol interestingly, most of the top shops who ran exclusives ime did it thru british recruiting agencies so you almost knew ahead of time by the accent alone.

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 pm

OP here. Thanks for all the advice.

Went to Stanford. Just very hesitant about reaching out to random TLS PMs especially when I'm trying to keep it on the DL. But thanks to all that offered. I might hit you all up. But how competitive are places like Cooley? They seem to be doing some amazing tech work and really want to get in. I just think I didn't really know what I liked when I first started out (I mean many of us still don't know).

competitive sure but you are well credentialed and they are all very busy. plus you have the bay area school tie. id be highly surprised if you didn't get an invite to interview. presumably, be prepared to talk about tech and your current work experience. good luck!

So people on here are really thinking it's possible to lateral as a first year?? What about taking the CA bar?

Sincerely, first year who would be down to lateral to CA but was told you need to complete at least a year first and probably need to pass the CA first to be competitive (and man would I really rather have a job lined up before taking that, rather than studying while doing biglaw).

So people on here are really thinking it's possible to lateral as a first year?? What about taking the CA bar?

Sincerely, first year who would be down to lateral to CA but was told you need to complete at least a year first and probably need to pass the CA first to be competitive (and man would I really rather have a job lined up before taking that, rather than studying while doing biglaw).

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Sat Mar 06, 2021 4:56 pm

OP here. Thanks for all the advice.

Went to Stanford. Just very hesitant about reaching out to random TLS PMs especially when I'm trying to keep it on the DL. But thanks to all that offered. I might hit you all up. But how competitive are places like Cooley? They seem to be doing some amazing tech work and really want to get in. I just think I didn't really know what I liked when I first started out (I mean many of us still don't know).

Stanford undergrad and a HYS degree with presumably good grades plus a clerkship makes you a sterling candidate. Basically every Bay Area tech-facing firm is drowning under oceans of work right now and just need folks to join to help out the overburdened folks who are currently here. Nearly every person I chat with on deals opposite me is in the same boat; the amount of deals churning right now is insane. Which is to say that there's a pretty wide net being cast on the recruiting front and you're going to stand out from a lot of the other folks who are angling for these positions courtesy of your credentials -- it's an easy story to stick to that you thought trying out NYC biglaw was the be-all, end-all of corporate work and moving to a more tech-centric firm was instead a good fit for you. The Bay Area firms take plenty of NYC biglaw refugees in this respect.

Concur with the above that being cynical about random folks on TLS is likely the right approach but happy to chat more on the above re: specifics if that works on your end.

OP here. Thanks for the boost of confidence. Will definitely reach out--kind of want to see how next week pans out, submitted a few apps to places last Wednesday/Thursday. The thing that makes me hesitant is that I just started in September of last year. I'm hoping the year clerking counts for something and doesn't make me a complete amateur.

But you might have overestimated me, no Stanford undergrad, just your regular school + graduate school + Stanford Law--grades were median, suffered a substantial injury 3L that didn't allow me to go to class (was Zooming before it became cool) but have since recovered after physical therapy and am completely functional.

Not OP but also interested in the SV/SF market. How are the reputations of traditional v10 firms' SV/SF offices? (thinking mostly Latham, Kirkland or Skadden) Also is chambers reliable on this front? Seems like Chambers California: SF, SV is suggesting for corporate/M&A, Skadden is band 1 in sv/sf, and Hogan, WSGR, and Latham are band 2 (was probs referring to non-VC work and just general corporate or public M&A?). Seems like Chambers California - venture capital is more aligned with the traditional SV VC/EC shops reps? (Cooley, Gunderson and Fenwick band 1; WSGR Latham Goodwin and Orrick band 2). Thoughts?

bigboybob wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 07, 2021 12:01 pm

OP here. Thanks for the boost of confidence. Will definitely reach out--kind of want to see how next week pans out, submitted a few apps to places last Wednesday/Thursday. The thing that makes me hesitant is that I just started in September of last year. I'm hoping the year clerking counts for something and doesn't make me a complete amateur.

But you might have overestimated me, no Stanford undergrad, just your regular school + graduate school + Stanford Law--grades were median, suffered a substantial injury 3L that didn't allow me to go to class (was Zooming before it became cool) but have since recovered after physical therapy and am completely functional.

Median at SLS is going to make you competitive for any of the native tech-facing Bay Area firms and their kin (Goodwin, Latham, DLA, etc.). You do need a good story of why you're moving this early on from your current situation but it's a lot easier to do that when you're a good candidate in the first place.

OP: off topic, but just curious what is median at SLS nowadays? I was part of the class that switched from semesters to quarters and grades to no grades (honors/pass/low pass/fail) during my 2L year. I never had a good sense for what median was after that, and explaining my transcript to firms during OCI was always a bit of a bother.

I'm guessing 1-2 H a quarter and then the rest P is probably median?

How important are grades? Went to a T14 but want to lateral after my first year to my home market (where my family is from and where I went to school). Corporate, fwiw.

Grades were median at best. Currently at a v10.

Anonymous User wrote: ↑

Sun Mar 07, 2021 1:44 pm

Not OP but also interested in the SV/SF market. How are the reputations of traditional v10 firms' SV/SF offices? (thinking mostly Latham, Kirkland or Skadden) Also is chambers reliable on this front? Seems like Chambers California: SF, SV is suggesting for corporate/M&A, Skadden is band 1 in sv/sf, and Hogan, WSGR, and Latham are band 2 (was probs referring to non-VC work and just general corporate or public M&A?). Seems like Chambers California - venture capital is more aligned with the traditional SV VC/EC shops reps? (Cooley, Gunderson and Fenwick band 1; WSGR Latham Goodwin and Orrick band 2). Thoughts?

Chambers is good, but you're right in that their "Corporate/M&A" basically just leans on large public company M&A, which is by and large not what people are thinking when they're thinking of SF/SV corporate biglaw. For top general corporate shops, the Chambers CA VC or Chambers USA Startup rankings are a better proxy.

General take is that Cooley, WSGR, Fenwick, Gunderson are the top corporate firms, and firms like Goodwin, Latham, Orrick are all solid as well. DPW/STB/Skadden are good but they focus on traditional cap markets and pubco M&A, so look more like your traditional NY practice, just transplanted in SV.

Of the three firms you named (Latham, Kirkland, Skadden), would say Latham probably has the best rep of the three in the area, as their practice most resembles the native firms (C/W/F/G), but on a much smaller scale. Kirkland is basically just the same Kirkland it is everywhere else (PE and M&A), and Skadden is great in staying in its particular lane (pubco M&A and a dash of cap markets).

If anyone is interested here in Kirkland, pm me. I'm obviously interested in a referral bonus, but I'll work for it. I'm tight with recruiting in my office at least and have referred a bunch of people across the years. Any time I refer someone I talk to partners in the practice area to get an honest take on if there's interest, and bug recruiting constantly to make sure you get a screener.

I think recruiters are useful if you don't have an internal contact, but nothing beats someone on the inside. The recruiting dept. dept. works for us so when we call they pick up and have honest talks, as opposed to recruiters who are sometimes ghosted or treated as spam.

We also have tons of internal needs that aren't publicly listed so PM me and we'll figure it out.