Why the fixation with Kirkland? Forum

[lolwutpar]

lol @ "it's envy"

I don't give a shit about other firms (really, only partners should). We all get paid roughly the same - yes, other V10/V5 firms give above market bonuses. It's all the same work. Who gives a shit? People legitimately have bad interactions with KE, that's why they are derisive.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

I'm always bewildered by folks who think we're hard chargers. Yes, we definitely attract harder charging folks,

I laffed

[Anonymous User]

lol @ "it's envy"

I don't give a shit about other firms (really, only partners should). We all get paid roughly the same - yes, other V10/V5 firms give above market bonuses. It's all the same work. Who gives a shit? People legitimately have bad interactions with KE, that's why they are derisive.

You might not be wrong regarding your own experiences but there is definitely a weird flame that we hire less prestigious associates or something because we don't dig down to the bottom 1/3 of NYU. Personally, my worst experiences have been with certain V5s and V25s (one V5 consistently has some of the most clueless and irrationally pompous senior associates I've ever seen, people who 100% would've been flushed out years ago at any other firm) but I don't go out of my way to shit on them every time they come up.

[jladfj]

lol @ "it's envy"

I don't give a shit about other firms (really, only partners should). We all get paid roughly the same - yes, other V10/V5 firms give above market bonuses. It's all the same work. Who gives a shit? People legitimately have bad interactions with KE, that's why they are derisive.

You might not be wrong regarding your own experiences but there is definitely a weird flame that we hire less prestigious associates or something because we don't dig down to the bottom 1/3 of NYU. Personally, my worst experiences have been with certain V5s and V25s (one V5 consistently has some of the most clueless and irrationally pompous senior associates I've ever seen, people who 100% would've been flushed out years ago at any other firm) but I don't go out of my way to shit on them every time they come up.

Which V5?

[Anonymous User]

lol @ "it's envy"

I don't give a shit about other firms (really, only partners should). We all get paid roughly the same - yes, other V10/V5 firms give above market bonuses. It's all the same work. Who gives a shit? People legitimately have bad interactions with KE, that's why they are derisive.

You might not be wrong regarding your own experiences but there is definitely a weird flame that we hire less prestigious associates or something because we don't dig down to the bottom 1/3 of NYU. Personally, my worst experiences have been with certain V5s and V25s (one V5 consistently has some of the most clueless and irrationally pompous senior associates I've ever seen, people who 100% would've been flushed out years ago at any other firm) but I don't go out of my way to shit on them every time they come up.

Which V5?

Probably White & Case

[Madden_Arps]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

[parkslope]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

I don't buy this. There are plenty of other firms reputed for attracting "Chad" personalities, including the one related to your username.

[Anonymous User]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

And yet, Kirkland attorneys are still nebbishy bean counters when contrasted with the swaggering sexgods of the plaintiff's bar.

Mark Lanier regularly blows snot bubbles with more chutzpah than all of the v10 combined.

Any biglawyer's self-image as anything approaching a cool or confident master of the universe is cope, plain and simple. We are at best attack dogs, but are really more like mules or water buffalo for the ruling class.

[ExpOriental]

^accidental anon

[Anonymous User]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

I don't buy this. There are plenty of other firms reputed for attracting "Chad" personalities, including the one related to your username.

It's not like Skadden is loved lol, it's Skadden is also just equally as hated - at least based on my observation at my CCN, Skadden and KE have the worst rep

[Anonymous User]

I actually think Skadden's image has been somewhat rehabilitated in the past decade or so. Once Eric Friedman became chairman, the firm's done a lot to increase diversity (relative to peer firms—it still has a long ways to go), pump money into the Skadden fellowship, etc.

[Adz123]

I heard that they train their associates to be maximally aggressive and hard-charging, and to take pride in excessive billing.

This is 100% false (laughably so).

[lawlo]

I heard that they train their associates to be maximally aggressive and hard-charging, and to take pride in excessive billing.

This is 100% false (laughably so).

It's about that season where KE summers start bolstering the firm's image.

[Anonymous User]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

lmao this is the most ridiculous post on this website

[Anonymous User]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

Bro, posts like this are exactly the reason why K&E gets hated in this forum.

[Idontwanttomakeaname]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

So, you can see, Kirkland haters aren't jealous of Kirkland itself, but rather of the people who work at Kirkland. Any mention of Kirkland is an opportunity to attempt to bring the firm down a peg, dissuade students from joining the firm, or otherwise feel better about not measuring up to their Chadly counterparts.

Bro, posts like this are exactly the reason why K&E gets hated in this forum.

I am pretty sure Madden Arps is just a well executed troll

[Anonymous User]

lol @ "it's envy"

I don't give a shit about other firms (really, only partners should). We all get paid roughly the same - yes, other V10/V5 firms give above market bonuses. It's all the same work. Who gives a shit? People legitimately have bad interactions with KE, that's why they are derisive.

Agree with this. In my market, most 3rd year and above associates at peer firms have had the opportunity to lateral (or outright job offers from K&E) at least once. My experience has been both quite extensive and rather uneventful when taken whole cloth, but I have consistently had to deal with issues created by some 3rd year K&E attorney over their head with little to no guidance or oversite from someone more senior in their shop or a NSP trying to flex on a fellow 6th year associate because they have a title I don't.

I would also say that, in general, their junior's attention to detail sucks (maybe due to too much work at any given time, I am semi-sympathetic to being too busy) and I or one of my junior associates has to spend our time and our client's money routinely fixing basic drafting mistakes that should never leave the door (a few nits is fine/understandable, but when three different defined terms for "Buyer" are used or entire articles were clearly inserted with no attempt to conform numbering/defined terms/section cross-references, it gets very tedious to spend my weekends making someone else's form document coherent).

Lastly, I have 0 respect for their conflicts process, and have seen it come back to bite their clients badly in the past .

[LBJ's Hair]

It's not exactly jealousy or envy, but it's something akin to it. Most law students and junior lawyers, especially the ones who post on message boards like this, tend to be timid, nonconfrontational, introverted, and generally pretty nerdy and yet simultaneously entitled and pompous. Kirkland attorneys, both by design and due to self selection, are much more assertive, extraverted, attractive, and successful -- "Chads" if you will. The "Melvins" who work at other law firms are resentful of the Chads at K&E but too intimidated to do anything about this in real life (and, indeed, often lose to them in direct transaction negotiations) so they reflexively release their vitriol online.

A+, troll or not

to original post - for me, it's not envy, it's disdain. putting aside their compensation model -- I do not respect (most of) the lawyers I know who work there.

is it fair to generalize that to the whole firm? probably not - big place, I'm sure there are plenty of sharp attorneys

but it's fun having a villain, and the posts from K&E anons going "look it's not that our hiring process isn't competitive, it's that we look for OUTGOING SAs who will be CLIENT FACING" etc etc ... I mean, what more could a TLS poster want

[Anonymous User]

Got an email from a partner at Kirkland this week asking me to sit down and discuss joining their M&A department. I’m a very junior litigation associate... they must be getting desperate. Others in my firm got the same type of email too.

[Sackboy]

Got an email from a partner at Kirkland this week asking me to sit down and discuss joining their M&A department. I’m a very junior litigation associate... they must be getting desperate. Others in my firm got the same type of email too.

That's absolutely hilarious.

[2013]

Got an email from a partner at Kirkland this week asking me to sit down and discuss joining their M&A department. I’m a very junior litigation associate... they must be getting desperate. Others in my firm got the same type of email too.

I’ll switch practice groups if they give me enough $. I hope I get an email soon.

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland is a top firm in like every single market it is in (Chicago, New York, DC, Houston, Boston, etc.), so a lot of students, including top students, get rejected by Kirkland. This creates resentment for the firm, and a firm the size of Kirkland will reject a lot of good applicants.

People like me resented Kirkland for a while because it we were upset we got rejected from a law firm that seems to have no hiring requirements other than graduating from a good school.

I think Kirkland is an amazing firm that has found a way to operate like a corporation and reap profits. But I still shit on it because the firm rejected me years ago.

Can't speak to the other markets but Kirkland Houston is not selective. Top students from UT typically have no desire to work there

Although the anon you quotes is clearly a poorly disguised kirkland shill, your statement re KE Houston is not true either.

Different anon, but the statement about the Houston office is definitely true. I went to UT and work in Houston. I have several friends at KE and know for a fact that they have hired many students out of UT with grades well below the cutoff for most firms in town. I'm sure they get some great performers (and know a few top UT students that went there), but they've definitely been in a "warm bodies capable of doing diligence" hiring mode for several years.

[Anonymous User]

Why the fixation with KE? Because people like yourself start threads like these.
These threads aren't inquiries. They are part of KE Houston recruiting machinery following the same script. Every single time.
Step 1. OP feigning ignorance, wondering why KE Houston bad.
Step 2. OP's friends #1 and #2 chime in say KE Houston wonderful. Other firms mad and envious. #theyhateusbecausetheyanus
Step 3. TLS reactions & drama ensues.

You can tell it's a coordinated scripted thing because it's repetitive and because Step 2 usually follows right after Step 1. Might as well be part of the same post.

[Anonymous User]

The short answer to this is Kirkland is consistently not as well regarded amongst people who know what they’re talking about but are good marketers/call mid/senior level associates partners/pay associates above market in a way that provides it with the cache they need to make up for the lack of prestige/consistent skill across the firm. From my experience they’re generally nice people who work hard. Honestly seems to be a good strategy that is clearly working.

Anon: senior associate at another V10 who works with them, a lot.

[Anonymous User]

People always have strong opinions about where they work, good or bad. Kirkland is a big firm, so there are many employees that could share opinions. That number is even higher if you include former employees. It also seems clear that TLS is heavily populated with Kirkland people for some reason. Therefore these people are more likely to bring the firm up, and also more likely to respond when someone else brings it up.

Beyond that, it’s also a firm that is large, aggressive, and present in numerous markets. That means people at other firms are constantly being exposed to Kirkland, or at least hearing things about it. Those may be positive or negative, but the point is that nobody isn’t aware of them. They are a large presence in law school recruiting, lateral recruiting, and the market in general. That may be a positive or negative presence, but either way it’s something that generates conversation.

In the past 10-15 years, the firm has also been responsible for driving a lot of change in the market. They’ve put pressure on traditional partner compensation structures, lateral hiring, the traditional balance of power in markets like Texas, etc. Some people celebrate that success, while others hate them for bringing negative change. The firm also has a ton of money and a demonstrated history of using it aggressively (both in existing markets and new markets). Therefore “what will Kirkland do?” is always going to be a relevant question for other firms.

Some people love it. Some people hate it. Everybody has an opinion about it.